Forest school - outdoors all day at 2.5 years old

[SunSparkle]

My daughter is 2.5 years old and in a lovely nursery 4 days a week. It’s very structured, clean play and although they play outside in a playground, they never leave the nursery and the playground is rubber floored rather than a space in nature.

I’ve found a woodland forest school nursery where they have a shelter (not a building) for the toddlers to nap, and they have a hut for the toilets and potties. They also have a teepee and make temporary tarpaulin roofs to make dry spaces in the woodland but other than that the kids (15 months to 4 years) are outside from 8am to 5:30pm whatever the weather. They don’t have a building for when it’s raining or snowing but they sometimes go to the library or local museums or glasshouses.

I know I can dress my child appropriately in skiwear/layers and proper waterproofs but I’m just worried is she too young to be outside all day? I will be going home after dropping her off in winter to a lovely toasty house and she will be outside.

she seems to have enjoyed some short sessions there (they also run a playgroup) but it’s been warm while raining and not cold. She would probably do a mix of her current nursery and the woodland one eg 2 days at each.

does anyone else have a young child in all day forest school with no building? Does your child enjoy it?

My DS is 9 now but went to a fully outdoor forest preschool 2 days/week for 2.5 years before reception and still goes to forest school holiday club.

He also went to a traditional nursery to cover days I needed childcare that the forest school couldn't offer.

Reading all the comments about how ghastly forest school sounds, I just asked him which he'd preferred and would recommend to a 3 year old now. Without hesitation and emphatically, he says forest school.

I asked why forest school and not the one where you get to stay indoors in the dry, and he says "because of the freedom they give the children...and because I learned to climb trees which I wouldn't have done anywhere else and still enjoy today...and they trusted me with things like sharp tools when the other lot just gave you plastic scissors and because of that I learnt to trust myself to do things and I think it made me more sensible...also because I knew how to light a fire safely with flint and steel when I was 4 which is pretty cool". Re being cold and wet he says he never was, and "if you're cold and wet from spending a day outside in winter, you've got the wrong clothes or you've been acting stupid, so you need to sort that out because that's on you". A bit blunt maybe, but a vote of confidence in being able to stay warm and dry and happy :-)

He also says that forest school experience days he's done at primary school were a bit rubbish and he didn't enjoy them that much, they're just "normal school trips really" and not proper forest school apparently!

@belladonna22 sounds v like DS's old forest school. Agree with all that.

The play-based learning covered all the EYFS bases and more.

There can be a happy medium. My DS goes to a nursery that has bifold doors that open up to a huge outdoor area in a field, which has trees to climb etc. So they get a mix every day. 90% of the time they're outside but when it's lashing with rain there's enough room inside to do parachute games etc.

I also wonder about how forest schools cater for allergies. With limited equipment (like separate sinks) I'm guessing not very well.

Re being cold and wet he says he never was, and "if you're cold and wet from spending a day outside in winter, you've got the wrong clothes or you've been acting stupid, so you need to sort that out because that's on you". A bit blunt maybe, but a vote of confidence in being able to stay warm and dry and happy

To be fair, my issue wouldn't be that it's not possible to stay warm, just that I wouldn't like to have to wear thick gloves, big coat, and a hat and scarf all day every day. I might be warm, but I don't consider that to be particularly comfortable.

One of the benefits of being outdoors is the risk of transmission of illness illness like COVID, flu and RSV, which are all airborne, will be much lower.

There are a number of studies demonstrating how ventilation lowers COVID incidence in schools - so being outside would be the optimal situation. Obviously not 100% safer if kids are playing right next to each other, for example, but much safer than a stuffy room with no open windows in the middle of winter.

Agree, mine picked up fewer bugs at forest school.

"There can be a happy medium" - I think perhaps it's more about the right setting for the individual child than there being any one right balance that is best for all? Some children will thrive best in a full outdoor setting following a forest school philosophy, some will be happier in a more traditional setting with freeflow access to a large, rich outdoor space, others will choose to spend their time in indoor play given the option and go outside only if cajoled by adults or friends! Similarly, different children do best with different levels of structure in a setting's activities and routines. Children are all individuals and it's good that there is a range of types and ethos of settings so people can find the best fit.

The OP's question was about whether her daughter could stay warm and dry enough during full days outdoors. The experience of the people commenting on the thread whose children actually attend or have attendee similar settings, has been very positive on that score and similarly, people with direct experience have reported re summer weather that they have at least no worse a time keeping cool on very hot days in the woods, than children at traditional settings (unless an indoor setting had air con I guess!)

With the right outdoor clothing I don't think you need to feel bundled up outdoors at all - I hate that too, and pre-schooler DS wouldn't have tolerated it, you want to be comfortable and have ease of movement outdoors - although there is the problem of good "non-bundly" outdoor winter clothing being a big expense, especially with rapidly growing children.

Lol - where did I say I don’t like outdoor learning or nature? I think forest schools are brilliant for a couple of hours a week, or maybe even an hour a day. But all day every day? Ridiculous.

@Simonjt I was making a point that most of the staff’s time will be spent undressing and dressing the children. I’m not sure why you took that to mean I was against anyone helping the children dress and undress. I don’t think it’s a productive use of anyone’s time when (1) it must take an average of 15 minutes instead of 2 (x 20 kids x 5 times a day) and (2) it must prevent the children from being fully independent. Either these ‘schools’ employ someone full time to help the kids use the toilet all day or they put them in nappies. There’s no way they could keep taking staff away from activities to help with toileting - no activities would ever get done.

As for porridge and pancakes, no thanks. I see someone made the point that their forest school buys in meals from a caterer. How do they measure the temperature of the food on arrival at the forest or get it up to the right temperature if it arrives lukewarm? Is the forest registered as a food premises? Who is responsible for food safety if something goes wrong?

This is stuff you can’t take chances with when you are responsible for the safety of children in a nursery. It’s quite alarming to read about the chances taken by these forest school outfits - most of them in an attempt to benefit from low overheads rather than any great belief in the benefits of outdoor provision, I bet. But then again, I’m not the customer and I know too much about the realities of running a nursery to be taken in by a sales pitch involving trees and mud - which you can find in any garden, by the way.

Outdoor education isn't playing in a nursery garden for an hour a day.

End of the day some people think forest schools are awesome and some think they are gruesome.

Isn't it great that there are more choices and opportunities these days so that people can chose what they want for their kids.

To add (in Scotland) all nurseries, including forest schools must be inspected and registered with the Care inspectorate

They must be staffed by qualified staff and follow Curriculum for Excellence Early Years to qualify for early years funding.

You can read inspection reports online and there will be good and bad provision in both forest schools and traditional nurseries.

"Isn't it great that there are more choices and opportunities these days so that people can chose what they want for their kids."

Well said.

In Engkand, similarly, forest school settings are subject to Ofsted inspections like any other nursery or preschool, they follow the EYFS curriculum, and they are subject to all the usual requirements with regard to H&S policies, procedures and risk assessments - which I suspect receive a lot more anxious scrutiny and double-checking and questioning by prospective parents than a traditional setting's might typically get!

The forest school my son attended spent more per head on staff salaries than many settings, as they maintained higher adult:child ratios than the minimum (at least 1:2 for under 3's and 1:4 for 3 and over). So my assumption is that savings on bricks and mortar overheads went straight into staffing costs. The owners and all staff were very knowledgeable about and committed to outdoor education and the forest school approach.

As others have said, potty training was well handled in DS's forest school and he potty trained during his time there. Higher staffing ratios and smaller group size more than balanced out the dealing with extra layers issues, and as others said, 2 piece waterproofs not puddle suits helped. Staff were respectful of parents' choices on timing, and they worked with us when the time was right just as the staff at his indoor nursery did.

Just thought I'd put this on to address a few misconceptions/concerns I'm seeing in this feed. I am a forest school practitioner working with children of all ages. The number one thing I'm seeing is children not enjoying being cold or wet and being 'miserable'. This is a valid concern and something I get a lot. Appropriate dress is always important, a forest school with long hours should ALWAYS be advising on this and supporting families with dressing children for all seasons. Multiple changes of clothes are very beneficial as well. Children are a lot more resilient than we think. I've had children struggle with getting wet for their first sessions, by the end of the program they fully embrace it. Forest school leaders are there to work with the children on this and help them build confidence.
In terms of shelter forest schools providing long sessions tend to have yurts, roundhouses or TPs. These are often heated. I've had many a rainy day session where we've been spending time both outside enjoying the rain as well as inside our shelter cosy with blankets and cushions. We read stories, sing songs and play games.
Toilets are a big concern for many. I only run sessions with children who are able to use a toilet. If a setting is taking younger children just make sure to check their policies and facilities surrounding nappy changing etc. My site has composting toilets (they smell fine, just of wood chips!) which are used exactly like normal toilets just with no flush and we have full hand washing facilities with clean warm water, soap and paper towels.
The main point is every forest school is different. I truly believe fs can work for MOST children. Just look up your local one, check their policies, look at pictures, communicate with them and ask to come and look at their site. 99% of fs sites will be happy for you to come and take a look. I would be happy to answer questions if anyone has them :)