Forest school - outdoors all day at 2.5 years old

[SunSparkle]

My daughter is 2.5 years old and in a lovely nursery 4 days a week. It’s very structured, clean play and although they play outside in a playground, they never leave the nursery and the playground is rubber floored rather than a space in nature.

I’ve found a woodland forest school nursery where they have a shelter (not a building) for the toddlers to nap, and they have a hut for the toilets and potties. They also have a teepee and make temporary tarpaulin roofs to make dry spaces in the woodland but other than that the kids (15 months to 4 years) are outside from 8am to 5:30pm whatever the weather. They don’t have a building for when it’s raining or snowing but they sometimes go to the library or local museums or glasshouses.

I know I can dress my child appropriately in skiwear/layers and proper waterproofs but I’m just worried is she too young to be outside all day? I will be going home after dropping her off in winter to a lovely toasty house and she will be outside.

she seems to have enjoyed some short sessions there (they also run a playgroup) but it’s been warm while raining and not cold. She would probably do a mix of her current nursery and the woodland one eg 2 days at each.

does anyone else have a young child in all day forest school with no building? Does your child enjoy it?

I was going to send mine to a forest nursery until I went to see some highly recommended ones.

I liked the idea more than the reality. I wouldn't want to be outside all day, esp in winter so I don't know why I would want my child to be! I think the novelty would wear off quickly.

I've found a pre school which is a lovely middle ground. Nice cosy indoor building but a great big outdoor space with animals and a garden to plant and grow. It's owned by a farming family and nestled in a valley with trees, hills and big skies all around. Perfect mix and no extremes.

When my dc were little, we'd always go out every day, whatever the weather but there is no way in the world that I would want to be outside ALL DAY in driving rain, or fog, or sleet.
I love to run and jump in puddles (still ) and I love fresh air and hiking, but seriously ? An hour outside in driving rain is plenty, and then the chance to come in and have a hot chocolate - or even a shower or nice hot bath, and get changed into dry clothes and snuggle up with a book or playing something different is a MUCH better idea.

There is no way I'd inflict this upon a small child.

That sounds utterly hideous to me as an adult let alone a young child. Mine would have hated it.

That honesty sounds horrific. If your office job got moved to 'forest job' you'd be out of there like a shot.

I see the benefits of plenty of outdoor time but...all day every day? Fuck that.

My kids would have loved this

I would never send my children to your nursery if you think all day in nature is boring, that's really worrying you thing that way and look after young children.

We've just registered out unborn at a nursery like this. From 6 months to 3years they have a lot of outdoors time but also have indoor sessions. From 3 they are outside all day, all year round - including a composting loo! Obviously if it ends up not suiting our child we will move them, but the evidence is that children really thrive generally and as our child will be in day care 5 full days a week it is essential to us that they are in a stimulating environment.
It's not for everyone, but on our visit we could see how happy and engaged the children were.

They’ll be fine, our daughter is starting an outdoor forest school in nursery (in Sweden) in a few weeks, no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing.

@User8646382 If you can’t be bothered to help children toilet, you should be in a different sector.

I consider myself a reasonably outdoorsy person, but all day every day with nowhere to warm up even if it's freezing and chucking it down? I think it sounds miserable.

The nursery we use is a middle ground between the two you describe. Outside every day, and the outside space includes grass and bark rather than just a hard floor, and they regularly visit the park across the road. I'd like the outside space to be bigger, however that's not realistic where we live, but even so it's still pretty big.

I considered this as I knew DS would love it but I also thought the transition from forest school to school would be harder than the nursery setting he’s currently in. They have indoor buildings, a massive outdoors space, spend as much time as possible outside, planting, digging, exploring nature, running around etc but also have rooms to go in and practise handwriting in a more sit down setting if that makes sense, so they can get them ready for school.

like others said only you know your DC and what they like/ respond to

@User8646382 hasn't said anything of the kind Simonjt . She is quite rightly being realistic about the realities of an adult helping 8 children to get into and out of all in one puddlesuits plus enough layers to keep them warm, when they are outside for a whole 9 hours. Plus the realities of cooking like that day after day, week in, week out. Personally I hope anyone who is running a Nursery thought about the practicalities of such a proposition.

It sounds utterly hideous and miserable. Outside all day in pouring rain and biting winds in January. Outside all day in 40 degrees. Just no way. I’m sure you could find a balance

These types of nurseries are spectacular. I wish they'd been around when my kids were at that age. We would have totally used them

All that outdoors time is so good for them

I worked next to one for a couple of years and the kids all looked so happy and everyone I've known that's used one raves about them.

PS I'm in Scotland and it's raining and
Baltic frequently

I can't imagine a worse setting than your nursery on each and every point.

No I wouldn’t consider it. Ds nursery is a Montessori and forest school. He loves it. But they have a full indoor nursery and aren’t forced to be outside all day.
He only goes mornings but many go all day.

Often then children are outside all day, in the gardens and woods. But absolutely they need indoor space. When it’s too windy they don’t go out as too many trees and risk of falling. In snow blizzards they don’t go out ( they wait and go out in fallen snow after), and on hot days they get taken out early when cooler and then back to shade or indoors when too hot. They have indoor toilets, showers, kitchen facilities etc. On nice days they eat snack outside or hot milk in woods in cold. But it’s a full 3 course hot meal for lunch which they eat inside at tables with cutlery.

I think 8 hrs every day rain or shine isn’t good. On days they aren’t 100% but ok for nursery surely it’s better that they have the choice to be inside reading and playing? Ours has indoor gym area and art and crafts that’s used well in storms.

They haven't said what their nursery is like? What they say from someone who worked for many years in an early years setting is correct, unless they are an outlier than has a tonne of staff above and beyond ratios a lot of time will be spent peeling layers of outdoor clothing off when they need the loo, which can be regularly when they first start potty training. The forest school here certainly uses nappies beyond parents wishes, it closed down not long after parents made this public knowledge. Also agree about the food, nurseries are scrutinised on their menus and what food they have, this is often circumvented or pasted over at some forest settings.

OP it depends on the child really, also I think on what other settings you have around you. I used to work in a nursery situated on a farm, it was excellent as it really was the best of both worlds; lots of private outdoor space (not all with animals...) including a wood area which was set up like a forest pre school, lots of staff interested and passionate about the outdoors and nature so did plenty of local walks too, but with an indoor area for when weather was adverse and for children who wanted some inside time. It was all free flowing. Appreciate a lot of areas aren't lucky enough to have somewhere with outdoor space, but might be worth exploring other options too before deciding. I really believe nature is brilliant for young children, but with no indoor option you're going to be facing more closures and it won't suit everyone.

On days they aren’t 100% but ok for nursery surely it’s better that they have the choice to be inside reading and playing?

This is also an important point to consider, especially in winter when the weather is likely to be worse and colds etc are more prevalent.

We are an 'outdoorsy' family who, for example, went to whole morning forest school sessions in all weathers (except when they had to cancel it themselves) and I have actually supported forest school sessions in school occasionally so I do understand the many benefits of it. However for me I would still want a middle ground nursery setting. Just as there are some things that can't be done in the existing provision I would say there are also activities that work better indoors than in a forest school environment, the variety is more important for me personally.

My kids love playing in the garden and we are well geared up for it with kit, and they can flow in and out as they choose most days when we are at home. They still do opt to come in and do other things, more often in the hot weather than wet or cold to be honest. I wouldn't want to nail my colours totally to one mast if I could find an option where, say, they had an indoor space but a really good natural outdoor space too. One of the reasons we took DD out of her first nursery was that they redid their lovely outdoor space and mud kitchen, and put down AstroTurf ☹️ but each to their own, many of the parents were happy with the more sterile offering!

As an ex Nursery Nurse ,I found this idea fascinating .However sometimes it might be a bit too much! All day outside even twice a week is not usual ,unless you are a Lumberjack or something! Also when hot weather is quite warm under trees as well.If she is happy where she is I would leave her there.Change between 2 settings is not ideal and may unsettle her. You can take her out at WE holidays to the forest /outdoors .

I love the outdoors in all weathers but what about nappy changes for the younger ones? Would hate getting my bare arse out in the freezing cold or rain to be wiped by a cold wet wipe several times a day! Must be a nightmare with all the layers!

As with nursery settings in general, I'm sure some forest nurseries are wonderful and others less so. Parents use their discretion to decide what is right for their children.

At our forest nursery...

• they exceed legal minimum staff/child ratios to ensure safety outdoors
• they have access to a local scout hut for pick up, drop off and on days when weather renders the forest site unsafe (only a couple of times per year, usually for high winds)
• when it's hot, the forest is usually much cooler than the surrounding community due to the lack of concrete, plus all the shade from trees - they also do water play and have cold fruit to keep cool!
• when it's very cold, the kids wear plenty of layers, but also because they're often walking, climbing and playing, they tend to stay warm! They also have a large covered area with a campfire for meals and reading, as well as a large tent for napping. My daughter is now also very well versed in fire safety rules :)
• Again, when raining, the trees provide great cover. They also have tarpaulins that they can set up to create cozy shelters for reading, drawing and playing. But the kids also enjoy the mud kitchen and jumping in puddles!
• I must admit that I was also dubious about the potty training situation. Our nursery uses separate waterproof tops and bottoms rather than an all in one puddle suit, so they're actually able to get them to the toilet pretty efficiently. Our daughter potty trained there no problem!
• The food is provided by an offsite caterer each day and looks delicious - tomato and courgette soup with pitta for lunch, for example, and coconut, mango and potato curry for dinner. Definitely more interesting than fish and chips (don't get me wrong though, fish and chips is also delicious!).
• They probably walk a few km each day between walking to and from the site and the adventure walks they do around the forest, and they also learn how to climb trees and logs safely. It's so great for their physical development - I was concerned about her previous nursery with a small garden, as I didn't feel she was getting enough exercise.

Is this setting for every family and child? No! And I feel lucky that I think we have one of the exceptional ones. But quite a lot of posters seem to be envisioning a bunch of cold, damp children left shivering in a field which is certainly not the case! If our daughter came home miserable every day we would of course move her. It’s not as if she isn’t aware that there are alternatives - she went to a traditional nursery previously where she was also happy, but she loves going into the forest each day.

There is so much freedom of movement and exploration, plus all the serendipitous excitement that comes from being in nature - a visit from a bunny or heron, discovery of a tree that has finally blossomed in spring, picking blackberries in late summer, looking for beetles and worms and slugs and examining them with a magnifying glass.

But to also reassure those who worry that they aren’t doing “proper” learning - just in the time I’ve been writing this, I’ve been sent some photos from the forest of my 3yo daughter practicing her letters with a pen on some recycled cardboard (which they use for drawing and writing - more sustainable!) - so perhaps she’ll be able to go to school after all :)

@Pandaflop

They haven't said what their nursery is like

Yes they have and you've referenced many of those points in your reply.

It's ok to have different views about this and different types of provision meets different views and needs.

I may have been harsh in my reply to po but honestly that type of provision makes me shudder in the same way that outdoor ed is making others in this thread shudder.

This is exactly how my DC are. Dd would have hated forest nursery, would have been torture for her.

Please note two things -

1. You are writing this post in August. Not January. Your perspective isn’t quite the same and neither is your child’s experience of the great outdoors.
2. A child who enjoys scrambling around for 2 hours after a day inside nursery is not an indicator that this child will enjoy having no option but to be outdoors all day each day in January.

I am a huge fan of moderation. I also believe that as adults we have options (unless we are homeless and struggling in awful conditions) - to shelter properly, and to relax when needed. We have the option of not living like Bear Grylls. I’d like for my child to not have those choices removed.

It sounds like my idea of hell. My DD hated Forest School she had to go as part of school and was forever begging me not to send her. She got angry when she got wet and muddy. She said the second year they just did a repeat of the first year again. At 7 she told her teacher it was a waste of her time and she'd rather be doing more Maths. Guess what job DD has now? Yep, accountant.