Nursery fees

[Smurf2019]

Good afternoon lovely people,

Looking for a bit of advice please

Our little boy has attended nursery for the past 2 and half years, However in recent months we have been having a few problems, our little man started to get the entitlement to the 30 hours free childcare in September and since then we have been charged a "premium" package fee for his attendance and being charged £1.80 per hour that he attends for 22 hours as his hours are split over 51 weeks of the year.

This premium package fee according the nursery is to cover all snacks, lunches and extra curricular activities.

My question is I believe this charge is meant to be voluntary and if we would like to supply our little one with lunch etc then we should be entitled to do that? However nursery state that no food or drink shall be brought in from home.

We already pay the nursery for the 8 hours he doesn't get funding which comes in at £224.70 per month.

this premium package for the food and drink etc comes in at £171.60 per month.

This makes our total invoice for the month with the 30 hours free childcare at £396.30.

Is this reasonable ? - I don't mind paying for food for him to attend as it does make our lives easier but paying nearly £40 a week for just snacks and lunches seems a stupidly high amount.

(I know nurseries are struggling but so are we and finding this amount every month is just really hard).

Exactly this

Blame the government - childcare providers can’t be ‘clear’ about the fees cause they can only charge for “consumables” but will need more than the true cost of “consumables” to make it a viable business.

Don’t forget you can get 20% off what they are charging also through tax free childcare.

Do you not think that the people that care for your children should be duly compensated? It’s expensive having nice premises, lovely resources, engaged and well trained staff, insurance, time spent on leading journals/pictures, time having to spend on paperwork (so much funding paperwork!!), time spent emailing and responding to parents etc etc
Nursery managers aren’t laughing with your fees all the way to the bank, a level 5/6 is probs only just above minimum wage.

We pay an extra £17 a day on the days which fall under the 30 free hours. (Was 15 but has just gone up this month). So think it probably is about right! But it is definitely confusing when they market it as 'free' when really it's just subsidised - think a lot of people get a shock!

Of course they should be compensated for the work they do and yes they aren't paid enough.

Its a problem though when you would be better off not working and sitting on your bum all day... then its handed to you on a plate.

Very much so, and its the wording they use. it certainly is a shock. you don't expect to have to go to a forum to find out if its right or not.

We pay £24 a day on a funded day (we aren't even in the South East) I would be so happy with £13!

If you're not a single mum presumably you'd get nothing as your partner probably works, so "sitting on your bum all day" would just mean losing one income.

If you are, you'd get more help with childcare plus maintenance so working would still work out far better than not.

That seems excessive I agree

I'd email them and ask them for written justification on the extra's. I understand for meals and snacks but not at £1.80 an hour for a 9-10 hour day!!

What are they serving?!?!?

Childminders don't tend to charge for extras

Let's hope when the government look at the funding offering they rectifying the hourly rates to cover what it needs to cover.

Most of the time the nurseries have a 'set rate' they need per child - so if the gov give them £4.80 and they would normally charge you £6.60 for example then they essentially need to make up £1.80 an hour. Most put that as a daily charge e.g. £18 a day for consumables. This one just happens to be putting it as an hourly rate

I think overall it's important to remember the difference in cost before/after the funding, generally there is a big saving, if you go to cheaper alternative childcare that is also an option. Sometimes childminders hourly rates are low enough that they don't really top up the funded hours

I think all nurseries have to increase fees somehow but do it in different ways.
my nursery doesn’t do top ups etc but has increased fees at all ages.
we provide packed lunch for my LO who will go 4 days a week, but fees just went up £10 a day anyway.
I think they do that to keep it simple so when you get your funded hours we know that 2.5 days will be funded and we pay 1.5 days.
they explained increasing bills etc and it’s understandable.

so it may seem that some nurseries charge more top ups than others, but others may just increase fees etc. Maybe it all evens out? That’s my guess anyway. My sibling pays a higher day rate but that includes lunch.

i guess also, my nursery can’t claim to charge for lunches when they are 3 years old, because we already know the local authority provides that.
it must be so stressful and worrying working in. The nursery field right now.

For heavens sake, read up on this. £13.20 isn’t for food and snacks - it will be for all consumables (one example being arts and crafts) and as you mention it’s for extra curricular activities aswell. Nurseries are not allowed to charge top up fees for childCARE but can and will charge parents for other things which is completely reasonable. They will be clear - ofsted and the council would have something to say if they weren’t. See what they say when you complain to them.

I can’t understand what you’re unhappy about - would you seriously be happy with someone looking after your child for <£5 an hour to include consumables and activities too? You seriously would? I despair. If most people were able to pay £13.20 a day to look after their child they’d be laughing, especially as both parents are earning money.

We pay an extra £21 a day to use the free hours. We still pay £700 a month for full time nursery (although that's down from £1200). Our nursery is strict on no outside food (won't even allowed a shop bought cake brought in for bdays) so no option of bringing a packed lunch. The food provided is excellent though, really varied menu which we have full access to. Don't get me wrong I'll be pleased when nursery fees are a thing of the past but I really can't begrudge them the extra money. The nursery is excellent!

We are also happy to pay but like you will be glad when we no longer have to! We also got accepted for a much cheaper nursery but opted for the nursery we felt was best for us which does cost more. I guess you get what you pay for. Money will be tight for a few years, but longer term we will manage, and 4 years is a long time for a little one!

Wasn’t there a case last year where parents contested the fees a nursery were charging as they hadn’t highlighted that the fees were voluntary.

The Ombudsman has published a couple of reports finding fault with councils for not overseeing funding properly and recommending fees are repaid

Are you using tax free childcare to pay for the fees? That's equivalent to a further 20% off your bill.

Most nurseries charge additional fees - they'd go out of business if they didn't.

Don't pay it and let the nursery close down then. Because that's the alternative.

It's not for food. It's the pay the staff the peanuts they slog for 5 days a week.

I'd bloody love to be paying £13.20 a day for childcare. Can't wait until my 30 hours kick in. I won't moan about paying extra as our childminder provides great care, food and it's a bloody hard job for peanuts!

It's not for food though, it's just trying to get to a reasonable amount that allows them to remain operating taking into account the government subsidy. The problem is that calling it "free" hours is misleading.

£13 a day is very cheap for childcare!

Of course you can't bring your own food due to hygiene and allergy issues

You are focused on it being 'for food' but say in the OP it's food and extra curricular activities.
It's a very reasonable amount, and it's clear the 30 hours aren't 'free', I've never seen a childcare setting use the word 'free' so while they can't charge a top up they can, and should, charge for extras. It's such a small amount they get from the funded hours it's not sustainable.

My DCs nursery limits funded places, once they are taken that's it and any additional spaces are charged at full rate. They couldn't survive otherwise. At least one dc moved nursery because the sessions the parents wanted weren't available on the 30 hours. I'm incredibly grateful we got place on the days we needed for DC and still pay ~£500 a month (NE so generally lower, it was £1200 for 4 days before) plus extra for a sports session with an external coach and anything additional (panto, museum, soft play etc).

My child gets 30 hrs funded and we are not charged a penny as he goes the 30 hours only. I realise how lucky I am. I would fully understand if charges were bought in for arts/crafts etc. My ds takes his lunch, wipes, sun lotion

Basically, if you don't pay it the nursery will close. They're not allowed to say it's a top-up but it is. So it looks like you're paying for food, but you're actually paying for food, staff wages, craft supplies, heating and electricity, activities, literally everything. The nursery won't be able to survive without that extra money.

Our nursery is the same re funded hours.
but they still had to increase fees somehow.

my LO is not 3 so we pay all fees right now, and they just increased by £10 per day. We also provide our own lunch.
I do understand this though. Maybe if they didn’t raise fees for those paying, or provided lunch etc, then they might have to charge top ups for funded hours.

that’s why I think it all balances out somehow l, but they maybe nurseries just find different ways of increasing fees etc.

You can still use the tax free childcare scheme to pay your portion of fees (assuming you are eligible and don't do this already). Brings our £244 monthly bill down to £198. Look at Martin Lewis's website for info on setting this up.

Seems quite cheap! We pay £16 a day and we have to send lunch!