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Original poster

Very confused about 30 hours

19 replies

TBC45678 · 14/03/2023 19:48

I think our nursery is only deducting the government subsidy for 30 free hours off the all year round bills - is this allowed? I've seen a few people saying it is illegal for them to get people to top up the short fall. They do offer the full 30 hours is that is all your child does, but for those that do extra hours on top you get the exact money they get from the government taken off your bill, which doesn't equate to 30 hours at the rate the nursery charges per hour (which is on par for the local area).

Thanks!

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MunchMonster · 14/03/2023 21:24

It's not illegal

Sleepygrumpyandnothappy · 14/03/2023 21:25

30 hours are spread across term time only, you’re probably paying for 48/52 weeks a year?

slamfightbrightlight · 14/03/2023 21:28

If you have any concerns about invoicing you should raise them with the local council which is responsible for ensuring nurseries are charging correctly.

Bree82 · 15/03/2023 04:59

30 hours is term time only, similar to school hours.
my LOs nursery is open 48 weeks a year so after turning 3 and getting funded hours, that will work out to roughly 24 hours/ 2.5 days a week (the days are 9.5 hours). So we will still need to pay for 1.5 days over the year.
unless we decided to do term time hours only. But then we would need to sort childcare over the holidays! So we will be spreading it out over the year.
I think spreading the funding out over the year for nursery’s open 51/52 weeks, it works out to about 22 hours a week funded hours.

Lucylock · 15/03/2023 05:06

30 hours per week is for term time. It's 22 hours per week for nurseries open all year.

JudgeRudy · 15/03/2023 05:36

I'm unsure what you're saying. Do you mean that if for example a child is in nursery for say 40 hours a week you expect the parents to pay forvthe extra 10 hours, but it's more expensive than expected, so more than 1/3 of the cost of the 'free' 30hrs?
If so that could well be right as it actually costs the nurseries more than what the government pay them....or it certainly does if they want to make a healthy profit.

You're correct they can't ask you 30hr parents for top ups. They get what they're given. They can charge for extras like food though.

grumpypug · 15/03/2023 05:59

Nurseries are often funded at a lower rate than you pay per hour, so the gov amount for 30 hours is far less than if you pay for 30 hours. The gov rate is often very low and there's no way it's sustainable in a day nursery.

Original poster
TBC45678 · 15/03/2023 06:19

Yes, they are offering the full 30/22 hours if that is all your child does, but if you do more than 30 hours what they take off your bill doesn't equate to 22 hours worth a week. They are only deducting the actual subsidised amount they are given.
I actually don't mind them doing this to be honest because I completely understand the difficult situation they are in and I really don't want them to have to close, and I know they don't have to offer the 30 hours at all. However I know other parents are annoyed and I want to understand the situation fully as I'm worried there will be issues with this!

OP posts:
Leafytrees · 15/03/2023 06:29

Do you mean they deduct whatever the subsidy is per hour and parents pay the rest of the cost per hour?

If so, the subsidy they get isn't high enough to cover their costs/bills, so they all have to top up somehow. Whether they call it charging for food, charging for care outside of the 30 hours or something else, it's all covering that shortfall. The government have designed a popular policy that unfortunately leaves the suppliers (nurseries) out of pocket.

Brokeintopieces · 15/03/2023 07:35

Have a chat with your nursery, the 30 hours is poorly underfunded but this should have been explained to you

Bree82 · 15/03/2023 07:47

Oh this is all so confusing and everybody seems to be told different things.
my nursery has said with funded hours that hot meals are included, (and for now, under 3, we provide lunch and nursery provides snacks and milk) but one of my friends says when they get funded hours they will have to pay extra for meals (but under 3 their meals are currently included) We are both Scotland but different cities… but I guess it all evens out between the different nurseries somehow…

Snowjokes · 15/03/2023 07:55

No, as you describe it they’re not supposed to do it. I can understand why they do though!

Original poster
TBC45678 · 15/03/2023 08:18

Yes, for the children who just do the funded hours they pay for hot meals on top of that. However for the rest of us I'm pretty sure what they're doing is what @Leafytrees has said, they are only deducting the actual government subsidy off our invoice. A one day fee at our nursery for a 3 year old is now £95... works out cheaper if they do 4 days (£85 per day), so the government subsidy in no way covers their hourly rate.

Like previous posters have said, I completely understand that this is probably what they have to do in order to keep running, however I think they need to be clearer with us about invoicing and at least make look like the 'top up' they are charging us itemised (food, resources etc.) Pretty sure they are not allowed to be charging top up fees at all.

OP posts:
Brokeintopieces · 15/03/2023 08:45

TBC45678 · 15/03/2023 08:18

Yes, for the children who just do the funded hours they pay for hot meals on top of that. However for the rest of us I'm pretty sure what they're doing is what @Leafytrees has said, they are only deducting the actual government subsidy off our invoice. A one day fee at our nursery for a 3 year old is now £95... works out cheaper if they do 4 days (£85 per day), so the government subsidy in no way covers their hourly rate.

Like previous posters have said, I completely understand that this is probably what they have to do in order to keep running, however I think they need to be clearer with us about invoicing and at least make look like the 'top up' they are charging us itemised (food, resources etc.) Pretty sure they are not allowed to be charging top up fees at all.

In my personal situation, I’m very open with parents and explain the poor underfunding and also explain the voluntary consumables contribution they pay. I’m also open about the very real fact that without support I would either have to not offer funding or close entirely (which would end up happening if I stopped offering funding anyway). I just can’t make it work with what the government pays and I may as well just get a cleaning job as at least I could pay my bills

Bree82 · 15/03/2023 09:16

Oh I’m still confused -
@TBC45678 do you mean if people only do funded hours then everything is covered?
but if we need 10 extra hours a week for example, which we pay for, then we pay extra on top of the 10 hours??

YorkshireIndie · 15/03/2023 09:35

We have 25hrs spread over 52 weeks

Original poster
TBC45678 · 15/03/2023 10:34

@Bree82 I know, it's so confusing! But yes, basically they offer 30/22 fully funded hours if that it all your child does. But as soon as you have hours on top of those, they start only deducting the money they get given by the government off your bill, which doesn't equate to anywhere near 30/22 hours of their hourly rate. I.e they are asking parents to 'top up' the government subsidy amount for each hour you do on top of the 30/22 hours.

Very complicated and they are not being transparent about this, which is causing problems with parents.

OP posts:
slamfightbrightlight · 15/03/2023 11:28

Again - it is the local authority’s duty to ensure invoicing is transparent. If it’s not clear, ask the local authority to take a look.

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