Is it normal to charge to 30hrs free?

[XxLondonxX]

Hi, my little one is due to start their 30hrs free in January and the nursery has told us that they charge £55hrs per week for "consumables." Is this normal? Is this even legal? His meals usually cost £16 per week and he's out of nappies so where is this charge coming from?

It doesn't sound alot but to us it really adds up. We were relying on these free hours financially.

Yes, it’s normal.

I have heard of this - will tax free childcare cover 20% of it?

Basically the “free” hours don’t pay enough for it to be sustainable. Nurseries call it different things, but yep, it’s normal.

Nurseries are not given enough money by the government to make the ‘free’ hours work. They should never have been called free hours, but part-funded maybe.

With minimum wages going up, many nurseries will fold completely just trying to pay their staff.

This is completely normal and pretty cheap to be honest. Most nurseries ask for you to pay for a certain number of sessions to get some free where I live (London!). The funding the nursery gets is so minimal from the hours that they have to cover the shortfall. Food might only be £16 per week in your eyes, but I’m sure he will be doing arts and crafts, making, baking, and other wonderful activities which all have consumables and cost money. I’d be thrilled if my child was getting 30 hours of childcare a week for £55!!!

Yes. Government doesn’t pay them enough per hour to cover essentials. So they can add charges for things like consumables, resources, food.

Covering Anything from toilet paper, paper and paint, new toys and garden stuff, books, milk, etc…

They're not free hours, they’re funded hours, and the funding the childcare providers get isn’t enough to cover the actual hourly costs, so although they’re technically not allowed to charge ‘top ups’ they have to get some more money somehow or they wouldn’t be able to offer the funded hours. I assume this is what they’re doing, and consumables could also include things like art supplies and other usable resources, but you can certainly ask them for a breakdown. It’s also only 30 hours term time not all year round so do factor that in.

Yes normal, we pay extra to 'top up' what the government pay as it isn't enough. Use the government tax free scheme to pay for it and get the 20% discount.

I'd say £220 a month for full time childcare is pretty decent!

We were charged for lunch times as these weren’t covered by the free hours.

They are not "free" hours, they are funded hours, and the funding only covers the cost of the education, nothing else. It is also such a derisory amount that the government pay (less than £4 an hour in some areas) that settings have no choice but to charge this or they would go out of business.

I didn't explain myself properly. My bill for aa 4 day week is going from £100 to £850. I'm not getting full time childcare for £230. I'd be delighted if I was.
It's so misleading to call them free hours of they're not.
And wow some of you mums are a delight aren't you.

£1100 not £100

Everyone has been really nice in their responses?

is your place for term time only or for the full year? The funded hours are term time only. It also doesn’t include food, extracurricular activities or any extras.l, nurseries charge for these.

Our Local Authority doesn't allow top up fees so I'd check with the local Early Years team.

And wow some of you mums are a delight aren't you

I genuinely can't see any unpleasant comments? Which ones have upset you?

Essentially you're annoyed because you didn't do your due diligence. The "free" hours don't cover consumables, aka food / supplies. The 30 hours also only apply during term time (38 weeks per year) - if your child is going for the entire year then they will have to charge you for this extra time, and they will split it equally over the year rather than just making you pay full time childcare over summer / Easter / Christmas hols etc. School is 38 weeks per year, you can't expect free childcare outside of term time. This is made very clear it's all over the internet and your childcare provider would've given you this information had you asked. It's nobody's fault but your own that you didn't fully understand what you were entitled to.

Can’t quite see the problem, you were paying £1100 your now paying £850 so you £250 a month better off, plus your child is in nursery 4 days a week all year round so that’s way more than the funded 30 hours! It’s very clear on the government website how it works. If your kids are at school you have to pay for childcare in the holidays.

We do have a completely ‘free’ option at my nursery but the times are set and lunch isn’t included so lunch has to be paid for if people have 12-1. You would need to pay full hourly rate outside of those hours.

Most of our families need our flexible option and there is an hourly fee for the ability to change days or hours as needed, the hours covered are wider. Some hours are ones that need paying for regardless, mainly very early or very late.

Unfortunately the low funding rate from government, the cost of training, staffing, consumables, food and building mean nurseries have little choice to make the charges. Private nurseries also have to pay VAT even though a preschool as part of a school doesn’t need to.

The current system is unfair to both parents and providers.

I currently pay £35 per day as I can only use 6 hours but a day is 10 hours plus they have to charge for 3 meals and snacks. And somewhere in that, hidden away and not quoted directly, is the hourly top up as the governments £4 is way less than the £5.70 per hour they charge.
Between our childcare bill is down to just under £80 per week for 15 hours at a school nursery and 2 full days at a private nursery (term time only, I'm a teacher....a nursery teacher at that!)

hi @XxLondonxX

the government really shouldn’t call them free hours, but rather funded hours.

what they do make clear though, is that the hours funded are for childcare only. They also make it clear it’s for 38 weeks a year. I’m assuming your nursery do crafts with the children? Painting? Cooking? Do gardening? I’m also going to assume they train their staff, have a cleaner, have insurance, have a window cleaner? This is what you’re paying for. I think in 2020/2021 the nurseries only received £4.81 per child per hour. Most will be bust in 3 years. Be grateful you’re not paying any more than you do.

it sounds like you’re saving £250 a month - seems normal to me.

If your child is at this nursery already, you have been able to access how tbe nursery do the 30hrs the whole time. Why didn't you check? It was one of the things i checked when picking my DDs nursery at 9 months old.

As others have said, the 30hrs is term time only, so stretched all year is about 22hrs a week, but most nurseries charge some extra to cover shortfall between their costs and what the gov give them.

Some nurseries do give the 30hrs fully funded, others don't, so if you need it cheaper you'll need to find a new nursery or pre school

to provide 30hrs childcare for actually free, the nursery wouldn't have money for toys, crayons, carpets, heating or dozens of other things that cost money. the amount they get from the government is a pittance. £55 is less than €2 per hour. just pay it. you wouldn't like a nursery environment that was run on a shoestring with no topup.

Yes completely normally. We pay about £20 per day on top, still allows me to put my DS into nursery more than I could otherwise.

The funding covers the hours they’re there not what they do - so if you want them using consumables then these need to be paid for, these include
paint
sand
craft paper
glue
glitter
milk/juice
snacks
aprons

(absolutely anything which is bought and used)