French nursery…

[sjxoxo]

Might be a long shot but any of you mumsnetters have experience of a french nursery? Anywhere in france. DS has just started & im feeling so anxious about it! I speak french but from the tiny bit I’ve seen so far the culture of childcare is so different to what I’d expect in the UK. Wondered if anyone had any experiences to share. Thanks in advance xo

I am from Monaco. I would say nursery will encourage independence and are quite focused on behaviour as well.
What are your concerns ?

@Cormoran thanks for replying. im worried about the communication to be honest! They don’t really give out much information other than he’s eaten, slept and they’ve changed his nappy! No mention of how he settles or crying etc. Last week they said nothing really- it was his first week - then when I collected on Wednesday the nursery nurse told me he’s sleeping on his own because he cries so much! First time it was mentioned. I expected more communication from them really that’s all. I get the impression they are very matter of fact about everything and don’t seem very warm which is what I’d expect in the UK. It seems very cold and old fashioned to me I suppose and I don’t know if it’s just this one or a bit of a cultural thing. Xx

I came to ask if you meant preschool or infant nursery, but I see from your update that it's for a very young child. Sorry, I can't help with that but if you have any questions in a few years' time about the French school system, I'll jump in then!

In general though, from having lived in France (not with nursery aged children), it sounds normal to me that they wouldn't see detailed communication with parents as expected. The culture of raising children is definitely different from the UK, but I don't know how that plays out in early-years childcare.

@Fink thanks for your post! Yes, baby 9m. Going 2.5 days a week - which seems not much to everyone here! Many babies in the nursery at 10-12 weeks old as maternity leave stops then for most. xx

A relative of mine sent her daughter to nursery in France - yes, they are matter of fact, yes they focus on encouraging independence in terms of self care in the children while at the same time fostering a sense of belonging in the group and consideration for the group.

Hence manners, social skills, and a good deal of emphasis on things many non French parents might let slide until children were older, like table manners. My relative found it great. The matter of factness comes from confidence that the children will settle in and enjoy their hours there after a short period of adjustment, which the staff know how to manage.

My cousin sent her child full time iirc and found it helped settle her in quickly. Children who went less than three days were doing too much chopping and changing to their routine perhaps.

Not massively helpful but my DS goes to a French nursery in the UK. They have to give a certain amount of updates under the curriculum here but I don't think they would bother otherwise. There is definitely a focus on independence and 'manners' (for want of a better word). They have a four course lunch everyday with proper cutlery and plates for example!

@sjxoxo There will plenty of kindness but also plenty of expectations. It will be expected that a baby will settle on his own, that at meals time, baby will use the fork and eat whatever is offered with minimal assistance, well maybe not at 9 months.
A lot of parents use nounou, the nanny, often shared.

A PP is right, going only 2.5 days might make it harder. Also, it will be harder if there is a great difference between home and nursery. For example meals. Not only what you eat but how you eat it as well. You will never see in a French café a group of mums and babies leaving the mess they do in UK or Australia (where I am based now) or even fussy eaters.
There will be very little tolerance from the staff about children's individual peculiarities such as like / dislikes, sensory difficulties, ....

It is more likely you will receive " homework" and be told he need to learn this or that at home, for things such as using a fork, washing hands, listening. Which when you move to school, will become, working on some reading or arithmetic.

Kids however become very resilient, and independent. They will be praised for what deserve praising not for every single action they take all day long .

You not talking much French will not make it easier. Do you work and need to send him , or can you wait a bit. If you have to send him, maybe increase the day, and use the extra hours to accelerate your learning of French.

Hello, I live in France and so I don't know what English nurseries are like! But yes, it sounds like you have summed it up well - most people here reply on the creche and so babies start earlier and are pretty much always full time based on my friends and my children's creche. I think it depends on the creche a little bit because my daughter's key worked were a little more forthcoming than my son's. But overall, yes, I think they are a bit "colder" than in England. Imo they will tell you very clearly if there is something really wrong, so no news is good news! However, trust your gut instinct - if you think that your child is miserable, you may need to talk to the directrice.

@mathanxiety I don’t know about ‘considerate in groups’- from what I’ve seen so far it’s the opposite actually. They allow children to snatch from one another with no consequences! I don’t agree with that tbh. It explains quite a lot about the driving habits here 😂😂😂

@Cormoran I do speak fluent french. I am sending him out of choice - I’ve taken 2 years off work for now, but he is attending 2.5 days a week to socialise with the other children and to hear french more as we speak English at home. I would like him to be familiar with a french speaking group environment before school so it’s not a shock to him. I choose a crèche over a nounou because I couldn’t find one that didn’t have the TV on often during the day, and there’s extra admin for us with à nounou. I think the larger social aspect of the crèche will be better for him long term. Nounous have a maximum of 4 children whereas he is one of about 10 in the crèche baby room, split into two groups, 10 weeks - walking & walking - 2 years old.

@sleepy78 thanks for your reply! I’m in normandy if you’re close 😂🤗 they’ve said so little so maybe it is no news is good news.. I did enquire with the directrice today & she had nothing negative to say… I hope I’m just overthinking it!! I had to apply for a place when I was about 3 months pregnant and feel lucky to have one here so I will stick with it and see how he goes.

Do you all think a 9m old would make it clear if they didn’t want to go in?? I wonder if he would make a fuss at that age if he wasn’t happy there. Or is he too young really to make that connection. He seems ok so far and a bit curious when we arrive. It’s only his second week so maybe I am being PFB 😂

Sorry @sjxoxo I misunderstood and thought they was a language issue as well.
All kids go through a separation anxiety around your son's age so it is difficult to say if it is the nursery or just the separation.
Babies won't be babied. The snatching, the sharing, the telling off is different. It is ok for a child to be displeased without an adult running and consoling.
I know it sound very hard, but it makes the kids incredibly resilient, way less tantrums, because they are not acceptable.
Affection is done at home. Teachers and staff can be caring and sweet if it is their personality, but the main criteria is efficient.

Is it a creche muncipale or an association or something else? I was put off by the municipale ones I saw because it felt like conveyor belt childcare with little individual engagement and emotional care.
I found a creche parentale that was much friendlier and more caring with better communication. TBH it still didn't match the British one my DC went to subsequently for kindness but the food was excellent!

Tpy snatching falls into the category of interpersonal interaction.

By considerate in groups they mean table manners, listening to instructions, walking in lines, not running off, not wasting group time or hogging teacher attention.

Don't expect Btitish cultural norms like enforcement of sharing or taking turns. French children are expected to learn to assert themselves and develop resilience in the face of toy snatching.

French preoccupations and priorities in child raising are not the same as British.

YYY to @Cormoran's observations.

I think you're right to.put him in creche now - where I live (which is not near Normandy unfortunately! ), only 40 percent of parents have their creche request accepted! Also, although I didn't find the creche atmosphère shocking, the environment and expectations in the first year of school did surprise me! And French school is.nothing like British school... (I'm a teacher in an international school so the difference is very obvious to me). They need to get used to being jn a group before Petit section imo. I suppose at that age it is difficult to know what babies think since they do get clingy around that age particularly. But my two were at creche from 5 months old and turned out to be nice children 🙂 I would try not to worry!

Hopefully I can help, I worked in a French creche for 6 years so have a bit of an insight.

With regard to telling you just the basics that's because that is what's noted in his records during the day, but they should also note other activities that he's done during the day like painting, if there was a particularly activity he enjoyed. Don't be afraid to ask for more details. I would never tell a parent that their baby is having difficulty settling in the first week because it's to be expected and also the parents are so worried I don't want to add to their anxieties about something that is completely normal. Have you taken a t-shirt that you wear with him, we quite often put babies to bed with one of mum's t-shirts next to them as it really helped them settle.

They do seem to expect quite a lot from children even very young children.

Independence is encouraged.

There should be different organised activities every morning for them to do, not just free play. Even babies can be taken along to help with a cooking activity, even if it means them sitting in a high chair just playing with flour, they are with older children and participating. The same with painting etc, if they can sit up in a high chair they can join in.

Children all fall into a routine quite quickly. In my creche babies had their own rhythm but by the time they got to around 18 months they adopted the sleeping and eating routine of the creche. However, if a child was tired on a morning they were sent to bed for a nap.

I would definitely send my child to a creche, particularly a private creche, the municipal creches do seem to be very big.

I'm sure your son will settle down and have a great time. All the children I looked after loved the creche (as did their parents).

There are definitely some aspects of French childcare that are very different to British childcare. For example, snatching of toys you spoke about, I wouldn't raise my voice but I would explain that we don't snatch and the snatcher would apologise (hopefully). If my French colleagues saw snatching, there would be harsh words and a telling off. The French are very quick to have raised voices when disciplining children. I don't like that.

Also, they always point out the negatives, get used to it, it's like that all the way through school, it drives me crazy and is definitely my biggest bug bear about France. Even at 18 when my son was on course for a tres bien in his BAC his head of year had to put a negative slant on it. It's what they do. I teach in primary schools now and I am very pro telling the kids how well they've done.

Thanks everyone for your replies - really insightful so thanks v much for sharing! @brittanyfairies thats really helpful Thankyou - I will ask about activities etc and what he’s doing here. He has a comfort blanket that he liked at home and he has the same one at crèche although they tie it to the edge of the cot so not quite the same snuggles as at home but better than nothing. What really ramped up my worries was last weds when I collected, he was still asleep and so I went with them to get him- he was sleeping on his own in a sort of big store room and when I said why is he here rather than in the dorm, she said ‘because he cries a lot’.. obviously this made me worry a whole lot more!! I raised this with the directrice yesterday and she seemed surprised and said he doesn’t cry hardly at all. So I don’t know who to believe!

It’s a private crèche, there is 18 children in total but roughly half of them are 2-4 years old so are in a separate area to DS. It’s so hard to leave him there when I have no idea what he’s doing, who the staff are etc! thanks for all your posts xxxx

@sjxoxo you have every right to ask for more detailed information. We would have parents who weren't bothered and others who wanted to know every detail, we were very happy to accommodate them and if we didn't know the answer because we hadn't been present during the day, we would write a note in the cahier so the parent would be informed the following day.

It's possible it's not your son who was crying but another baby in the bedroom. In situations like that we might possibly place the baby in a different room so that their sleep wasn't disturbed. Usually a baby having trouble to settle would be left in his own bed, it's not good for babies to play musical beds in their first week.

Older children and babies are usually separated, particularly if the older ones can be a bit energetic, but at the same time the little ones love to be able to watch the older ones, particularly when they start crawling.