Ratios

[Danikm151]

Hi all. I've got some concerns about the ratio off staff members to children when I collect my son from nursery.
I've tried to find some clear rules online but it's a minefield!
My understanding was that aged 0-2 should be 1 adult to 3 children
2-3 1 adult to 4 children and over 3 8 children.
When I collected my 2 year old yesterday there were 11 children to 2 staff members(very young so I doubt fully qualified) 2 were babies and 3 were my son's age. The others were over 3( I think)
Before I go complaining to the manager- does this break the ratios? or am I being too precious?

Thank you for your help!

48 points for two members of staff
2 babies 16
3 toddlers 18
6 children 18

52 points

Sounds like they were over but only just.

There is no point system. One staff member would be on a 1-3 for the 2 babies and one of the older ones, the other 1-4 as it would be the 2-3 ratio. So technically 4 over. Having said that many nurseries will say it's a building wide ratio so as long as sufficient staff in the building, but these are poor nurseries. They will have a record of ages and times of arrival etc, so ask them.

@Wineandcornflakes thank you. It definitely seems off.
there are plenty of staff there during the day but it tapers off after 4 and it’s a big building so even if there were more staff dotted around that’s not good enough.

I’d say speak to the manager because not only is it not providing adequate safety for the children but it’s also not fair on those members of staff x

There is no point system with ratios.

When working with mixed age groups the highest ratios are allocated first. Ie staff member 1 can have 3 babies, even if there is only 1 baby they can still only have 3 children, regardless of the age of the other children. If just one baby is being cared for, the entire ratio for that member of staff is 1:3. Same for the toddlers, any member of staff with a 2 year old within their numbers can only work at 1:4 ratios.

So from your reckoning they had 2 under 2s, 4 2-3s including your son and 5 over 3s.

Staff member 1 can be responsible for the babies and one toddler, staff member 2 can be responsible for the remaining 3 toddlers and one pre-schooler and that leaves 4 children out of ratio. And that's assuming they were correctly qualified.

I'd definitely say something. Ratios are legal requirements for a reason. Two members of staff is a tricky number anyway as once one adult is tied up the other person is completely on their own. Not great anyway but especially not when working over ratios and with such a range of ages and needs. And with 0-3s you're going to have a lot of changing and care taking a member of staff away so likely running with 1 adult to the remaining 10 children a lot of the time.

Also where were all these children? Is the nursery usually separated by age? Were they all in just one space and, if so, was that space suitable for babies up to preschoolers? Baby rooms look very different to pre-school rooms and I'd be questioning whether the space and resources were suitable for them all to share.

Staff go off sick, are out of the room briefly, in the toilet, changing nappies in the back room, popping next door to adjoining room, or in a corner cuddling a baby etc. etc. So those are all possibilities.

But having worked in a private nursery I don't find them safe environments for very young children. I worked in a private that kept ratios but found the babies unhappy and impossible to be properly monitored even with high staff.

If it seems a regular issue just ask, in a nice way - There could have been a third team member out of the room taking a child for a toilet trip/change.

It's a huge risk for the nursery if they are understaffed so I would be surprised if it happened on a regular basis.

Another member of staff could well of popped out to change a nappy, get a baby up from bed or have been dealing with something else for a few minutes. It isn't a bad thing to query because at least it will make sure the manager is happy with staff deployment through the building. They will be considered to be in legal ratio if there are enough staff in the building even if not in the room.

Yeah I agree with above you need to take into consideration toilet breaks, nappy changes, handing over to parents etc. my nursery always keeps to ratio but there are times when people have to pop in and out the room but are always close by if needed.

Why assume they aren't qualified just because they look young? I've had 18 year olds fully qualified in my nursery.

There are acceptions to the usual ratio
1:3 under 2s is absolutely standard the room leader has to be L3 or above and part of their training must include baby training.
1:4 for 2-3
1:8 3-5 years unless a member of staff has a level 6 qualification then they can be in a 1:13
You can use staff across the building so office staff can be included. It is not good practice but a lot of nurseries rely on kitchen staff or management to be included in numbers even if they are not in the room. Look for the EYFS statutory framework as this explains it all. It is a long document stating what the rules and regulations are

I have sometimes had this happen, then found that one of them is in the next room changing a nappy or taking out a bin and is back in the room before I've even had full handover , is this not the case here?

No, they have to be in the actual room to count. Not just in the building.

No they don't, they have to be available to go to the room if needed. It's staffing across the nursery and perfectly legal if not perfect.

I've been told different and that it doesn't work that way. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Been told by who?

I worked in a nursery, admin staff in the office, and was counted in ratios even though I wasn’t nursery trained at all. They had an overhaul after an ofsted inspection after a tip off

You can use this to automatically work out ratios: https://www.openanursery.co.uk/nursery-ratio-calculator-staff/

It's an automatic calculator and probably the most accurate way to check whether their ratios were correct

Did the ratios become law again? During covid they became non statutory in situations you can’t avoid, such as staff sickness. They did this on the quiet, not sure if it has gone back to being a legal requirement.

The ratios weren't changed during covid. Another misconception. It was just the per centage of qualified staff needed to be compliant.

This is not true, the ratios became flexible, I went through all the paperwork with my mgr at the council

covid was allowed as an exceptional circumstance meaning ratios do not legally need to be met
www.eyalliance.org.uk/eyfs-changes-coronavirus-crisis

Ratios were relaxed during covid,but it's back to normal now