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Agency staff

27 replies

WhenTheNightFalls · 27/04/2022 18:42

Helping my best friend find a nursery for her LO.
She really liked one but there are at present only 4 permanent staff and the rest agency. When she did a headcount she worked out that there must have been about 7 agency staff there and apparently this is a daily thing.
Is this a widespread issue or normal? My kids are a bit older but it was only really on the very odd occasion that their nursery used agency staff.

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Ricardothesnowman · 27/04/2022 21:50

Very normal these days.
There is a huge recruitment problem in the industry, sraff are leaving in droves for better pay and less responsibility.

This nursery sounds like the extreme, but most places will have some agency, and agency providers are so busy they can't cover all the demand.

Where I work out of around 16 staff we can have 2 or 3 agency a day.

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WhenTheNightFalls · 29/04/2022 19:17

It seems to have been a long term thing for this nursery. The same agency staff seem to have been there a while and persuambly, are not qualified.
I know you get the odd agency staff member in but surely the idea is that it is short term. I wouldn't be happy if my child was being looked after everyday by temps who had no real qualifications or training.
Friend has decided against this nursery and I don't blame her.

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RedWingBoots · 29/04/2022 19:54

OP why do you presume the nursery staff aren't qualified?

The thing is when you work for an agency it is easy for you to leave a role that you don't like. Plus due to the amount some recruitment agencies are currently charging employers in occupations with shortages, the nursery may not be able to afford to pay the recruitment agency for making the temporary staff permanent.

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ClemDanFango · 29/04/2022 20:00

The vast majority of agency staff are qualified. The only unqualified staff we have are apprentices who are working towards a qualification and they are always supervised.

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Ilovesandwiches · 29/04/2022 20:34

Speaking from a practitioner point of view, It wasn’t great to work with so many agency staff, no disrespect to them, rather than permanent staff. It meant people weren’t always familiar with the routines and the children and a lot of inconsistencies. This was only from my experience and obviously if the agency staff are there for a while it could be fine. Each nursery is different of course

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Ilovesandwiches · 29/04/2022 20:35

All the agency staff I worked with were however qualified and experienced

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Fupoffyagrasshole · 29/04/2022 20:43

Hmmm the nursery my daughter goes to very rarely has agency staff! Only if they are really stuck - most staff are long standing.

I think it probably is a sign it’s not a great place to work perhaps if they can’t retain staff ! Maybe I’m wrong though

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dannydyerismydad · 29/04/2022 21:03

It's worth finding out how familiar the agency staff are with the settings and nursery.

The nursery I work at has 3 cover staff members to cover for sickness and absence of regular staff. All of them worked at the nursery for several years as permanent members of staff but do temp work since they "retired". They are familiar with the nursery and the children.

Temp agency staff have to be as qualified as regular permanent staff, but they may not be as familiar with the children or processes.

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Maryann1975 · 29/04/2022 21:18

There are 8 private day nurseries in our town. Through April, I have seen a job advert from every one of them. Between them, they are after unqualified staff, level 2s, level 3s, managers and a cook. But all of them requested level 3s (which is the ‘qualified level’ for early years staff). I think it’s a tricky time for nursery owners at the moment. My friend is the head of early years in a school and has a nursery attached to their department. She is dreading if one of her staff leaves as she knows how hard it will be to recruit a replacement. Staff have the choice and can take their pick of jobs as there are so many out there at the moment.
the government have paid a pittance in funding rates for too long so there is no money for pay rises or differential pay between qualifications and early years staff were treated dreadfully during covid, I’m not surprised they can’t recruit to be honest. And unfortunately I think it will get worse before it gets better.

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Kanaloa · 29/04/2022 21:21

I’ve worked for childcare agencies - I am fully qualified and have worked full time in childcare too, but agencies suited me for flexibility.

I will say the nurseries where I was there frequently and there was always other agency staff there weren’t the ones I’d want to send my child to. The fact is that qualifications aren’t everything in childcare. You can have a full masters degree in early years education and childhood psychology but that won’t help you when Amelia is crying but you’ve never met her so you don’t know she has a special bunny teddy. It won’t help when you’re trying to muddle through a routine somewhere you’ve never been, liaise with parents you’ve never seen etc.

Plus the places I’ve been that have regular agency staff have that agency staff because they can’t keep regular staff. There’s usually a reason why they can’t.

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Kanaloa · 29/04/2022 21:24

WhenTheNightFalls · 29/04/2022 19:17

It seems to have been a long term thing for this nursery. The same agency staff seem to have been there a while and persuambly, are not qualified.
I know you get the odd agency staff member in but surely the idea is that it is short term. I wouldn't be happy if my child was being looked after everyday by temps who had no real qualifications or training.
Friend has decided against this nursery and I don't blame her.

The agency staff generally will be qualified and experienced. They’re not just random people. Actually I’ve found agencies are stricter than nurseries! Many nurseries I’ve worked in would have newly qualified out of college, level 2 or apprentice staff on the floor with way too much responsibility, but agencies tend to only take on those who are fully qualified because nurseries and schools won’t pay the fees for someone random.

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BeautifulBirds · 29/04/2022 21:25

Lots of staff issues, due to sickness, at our nursery. Thankfully little ones key workers are static.

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WhenTheNightFalls · 29/04/2022 22:47

Maybe just my experience then as I've known a few people (other mums) who have managed to get agency work in a nursery with no qualifications. Many of our local childcare agencies say also that qualifications are not necessary and you only need 6 months of childcare experience.
Was speaking to my friend earlier about it and she did actually ask who of the temps were qualified and only 1 was out of the 7. Not saying this is the norm but it is here. It seems after doing some research that many nurseries are having problems employing level 3s due to the fact that many are leaving due to low pay and high responsibility etc. Can't really blame them. Sad state of affairs really.

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Ricardothesnowman · 30/04/2022 07:17

There are rules on how many staff must be qualified.

It's a little complicated, but overall, nurseries should have at least 50% of their staff qualified in a "full and relevant " or, in new terms "relevant " qualification. This can be level 2 or 3 or above.

The list of "relevant " qualifications is published by the government.

If a nursery is not sticking to this, speak to the manager.
But I guess it's hard to know everyone's qualification level, so I'd be surprised if you friend had checked out all the staff against the published spreadsheet.

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Ricardothesnowman · 30/04/2022 07:21

As an aside, the difficulty in finding qualified staff is why the government want to change ratios.
They want to allow these hard working, low paid staff to look after more children each, making them work even harder for the same low wage.
And making the children just a little less safe, cared for and educated, as one person can only stretch so far.

Even the most qualified person only has 2 arms and eyes, so can't watch, feed, interact, nappy change, play with, etc too many babies at once.

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Kanaloa · 30/04/2022 07:49

Ricardothesnowman · 30/04/2022 07:21

As an aside, the difficulty in finding qualified staff is why the government want to change ratios.
They want to allow these hard working, low paid staff to look after more children each, making them work even harder for the same low wage.
And making the children just a little less safe, cared for and educated, as one person can only stretch so far.

Even the most qualified person only has 2 arms and eyes, so can't watch, feed, interact, nappy change, play with, etc too many babies at once.

Yep. I got out of it a while ago and now make more money working in retail doing far less hard work. Lots of people I know are doing the same. Why break your back in childcare (long hours, hard work, no respect) when you can have an easier job for more money?

Of course it can be wonderfully rewarding but in real life people don’t want to drive themselves into the ground if there’s an easier and more pleasant option.

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Musicalmaestro · 30/04/2022 08:07

Yes and these hard working low paid staff will be voting with their feet presumably as who else is supporting them?
The governments answer to parents concern about child care costs is to increase child/adult ratios, which will make the job harder.
I’ve never seen so many adverts for nursery staff, there must be a huge recruitment/retention problem.

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FinallyHere · 30/04/2022 08:10

about 7 agency staff there and apparently this is a daily thing.

How do the terms of the contract the staff have with the nursery impact your child's experience of the service ?

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worriedaboutmoney2022 · 30/04/2022 08:25

I work in the nhs and we rely heavily on agency staff as do nurseries and care homes too.
It just seems to be as it is at the moment

But from what I've seen these staff work as hard if not harder making a valuable contribution to the team

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Ricardothesnowman · 30/04/2022 08:27

FinallyHere · 30/04/2022 08:10

about 7 agency staff there and apparently this is a daily thing.

How do the terms of the contract the staff have with the nursery impact your child's experience of the service ?

Agency staff tend to be different people every day.

Most people who chose to work for agencies do so because they do not want to work full time. They have many reasons for that, but the outcome is that the agency can send different people each day.
Now this possibility matters less in some industries, retail, hospitality etc, but when caring for babies and young children, consistency really matters.

Children need to know and trust their carers, and the carers need to understand the children's needs.
This can't happen when it's a different person each day.

So it's not the terms of the contract that is affecting the child's care, its the consistency.

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WhenTheNightFalls · 30/04/2022 15:17

It's not my kids that are going, it's my friends.
The agency staff are different most days and many are not qualified. When you have 7 or more agency staff per day that is an issue especially when different people. Not only that but it does seem an excessive number.
I'm not sure what the answer is though. Increasing the ratio of kids to adult will just overwork nursery staff even more and surely will make more leave the profession.

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RedWingBoots · 30/04/2022 19:44
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Kanaloa · 30/04/2022 20:58

WhenTheNightFalls · 30/04/2022 15:17

It's not my kids that are going, it's my friends.
The agency staff are different most days and many are not qualified. When you have 7 or more agency staff per day that is an issue especially when different people. Not only that but it does seem an excessive number.
I'm not sure what the answer is though. Increasing the ratio of kids to adult will just overwork nursery staff even more and surely will make more leave the profession.

I know the answer but it’s not going to be done. The work needs to be more highly paid to reflect the responsible and necessary work highly it is. Early years teachers should be treated with more respect and paid a wage that reflects the important work they do. Proper training needs to be implemented and wages and funding raised significantly rather than squeezing every last drop out of people so private owners can profit as much as possible.

Because while teaching and moulding the youngest minds and being expected to safeguard the most vulnerable kids and taking home paperwork unpaid to ensure every single child (over 10 to a key group when staff is short) has next steps is paid the same wage as folding t-shirts in Primark and skipping out the door at the end of my shift to enjoy the rest of my evening I know which one I’ll be choosing.

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WhenTheNightFalls · 30/04/2022 22:24

Wow, makes for depressing reading. It's only going to get worse if something drastic is not done very soon.....

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Musicalmaestro · 30/04/2022 22:44

Totally agree Kamala.

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