Weird nursery bill for April - can anyone explain?

[jazzyoldjim]

So my 4yo goes to nursery 2 days a week, Wed and Fri, full days 9-5 and 8-6 respectively. We use 30h free funding spread across the year so we pay £10 each session for his food/consumables. Bill is £80/£90 a month.

We've just received the bill for April and it is £262! I have attached a screen shot to show what I've been sent and I don't understand it at all. I have asked nursery to explain and they have said

"We never run the grant on a week when there is a bank holiday, it’s not to do with school holidays, just bank holidays when we are closed, this is so nobody loses out on their full allowance."

But I still don't get it. Not sure if I'm being monumentally thick.
Any help very much appreciated.

My guess is that it's because they wont receive funding during holiday periods so should you wish for your child to attend then you will be charged usual rates. That's how my nursery works in Scotland anyway.

Are you saying the top bit, with the £50ish, is normally all £0?
I don’t really understand what they mean, but the week of the 1st April doesn’t have a bank holiday (does it??), so surely whatever they mean wouldn’t apply to that one anyway?

Maybe they mean that because they’re closed on the 15th when your son would normally be in, they don’t use the grant that week, so he can keep his hours to be spread across the rest of the year, rather than use them on a day that they’re shut?
Still don’t understand the 1st April being included though.

Some nurseries spread the funding across the year but you only pay the minimum, when using the free hours, if your days are shorter. So there can be 4/5 weeks in the year where you have to pay the full days because funding is only provided for 46 weeks, i believe.

I think it's because they are not closed for half term which are 2 weeks long in April? So you're paying full price for those 2 weeks?

@SickAndTiredAgain Yes, normally all 0, thats whats confusing me too - 1st April is a normal day, as is 13th and 20th and 22nd.

I understand that funding doesn't cover the whole year, we realised this back in August when we had to pay the entire full bill. But theres more? :(

Funding is term time only. Is that why?

Yeah. That’s the Easter holiday so funding won’t cover school holidays

I'm guessing here, and may be wrong.

Do they mean, that if, for instance someone only sent their DC on monday's and they're shut on Bank Holiday Mondays that person would be 'using' their allowance for a day they didn't get childcare. So they'd lose those hours.

So they've decided to divide the funding hours by the number of weeks that don't contain bank Holidays (so everyone can use all their hours - not actually sure this is legal, thought it was either term time or 50 weeks?!)

Your mid April dates are in the weeks that have good Friday and Easter Monday in them. The 1st April date I've got no idea what they're doing with that one!

Some counties have a weird thing about funding for the spring term only running up to the end of March but the summer term not starting until after Easter. Could that be it? So you're paying for the extra weeks? Funding is also only 38 weeks and the school year is 39 so there's a stray week somewhere even if you only do term time.

The bill looks confusing!

Just going from what you/ others have said, I'm also pretty sure the funding from the government for 3+ years is only given during term time.

I used a private nursery years ago and they gave you the option to use term time only or full time but absorb the full time cost over the year so it wasn't a big bill in August for example when it's the 6 weeks summer holidays.

I'd call them to ask, also check your contract/ original info as it might be in there.

Oh, hang on, when you said you use 30h spread across the year I thought you meant you were doing stretched funding!

No op, if you're getting 30h a week it's only in school term time - you have to pay in full for the school holidays.

You can 'stretch' those 30h to cover 50 wks of the year instead of just term time - I think that makes it 22h a week, from memory.

13th,20th and 22nd are all easter holidays and weeks with abank hol in (good friday and easter monday) not sure about 1st april though?

Yes you're being charged for the unfunded days?

Ah just seen the 4 posts before mine also clarifying this now too

Yep, term time only unless your nursery lets you spread the funding over the whole year. Ours lets you do term time only or across 48 weeks (shut two weeks for Xmas and then you take two weeks holiday of your choice for the other two). Are the three middle Easter dates during the school holidays?

Also, sometimes funding here starts midway through April - it's the 19th I think for our council area for some reason. So maybe there's something like that.

'We never run the grant on a week when there is a bank holiday, it’s not to do with school holidays, just bank holidays when we are closed, this is so nobody loses out on their full allowance."

Are they saying that on a week they are closed they don't accept any funded hours because kids who go on the bank holiday days would miss out while those who don't would get extra days in? But that should balance out over year in general as those funded hours just get used elsewhere?

If he only goes 2 days then you can claim the full 30 hours a week and so the following would apply

from govt website.

You can get 30 hours of free childcare per week for 38 weeks of the year (during school term time).

You may be able to get free childcare for 52 weeks if you use fewer than 30 hours per week. Check with your childcare provider to find out if this is something they offer.

So he is eligible for 38 weeks x 30 hours =1140 hours

You are only using 18 a week (but they may have a minimum )
I assume the £10 is for food

*Do they mean, that if, for instance someone only sent their DC on monday's and they're shut on Bank Holiday Mondays that person would be 'using' their allowance for a day they didn't get childcare. So they'd lose those hours.

So they've decided to divide the funding hours by the number of weeks that don't contain bank Holidays (so everyone can use all their hours - not actually sure this is legal, thought it was either term time or 50 weeks?!)*

Yes, this is what I think their message means. They don't offer funded hours on bank holiday weeks to make it fair, or kids who go on Mondays/Fridays will be disadvantaged over those who go the other days? Our nursery doesn't close for bank holidays, but I can see the logic in it slightly. It wasn't very well explained though.

@GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut

Oh, hang on, when you said you use 30h spread across the year I thought you meant you were doing stretched funding!

No op, if you're getting 30h a week it's only in school term time - you have to pay in full for the school holidays.

You can 'stretch' those 30h to cover 50 wks of the year instead of just term time - I think that makes it 22h a week, from memory.

But he’s only going 18h a week, so that should be fine to cover school holidays?

I'm not sure. Its massively confusing, I have pushed for further explanation.

Ok, i've also seen this little snippet at the bottom of the email "Summer term weeks 1 & 2 are: 04/04/22 - 08/04/22 & 25/04/22 - 29/04/22"

does that explain why 1st April is charged and not funded?

But he’s only going 18h a week, so that should be fine to cover school holidays?

Yes, it should, but if OP hasn't opted to stretch the funding do you lose the hours not used that week? Or do they roll over to the next week?

(I stretched ours, and couldn't roll over any on the odd occasion that I didn't use them, don't know if it's the same for unstretched?)

So basically they still charge for bank holidays even though they are shut, but they don't accept funded hours on those weeks to make it a level playing field for all parents. So the money is almost just a retainer fee for those days as the nursery presumably won't be open on the days listed (except April 1, which looks like it's just a stray week between terms). And those hours will be used elsewhere in the year.

That's how I understand it anyway, but they should be able to explain it more clearly and I would expect to have it mentioned in the handbook or terms and conditions when signing up. Also our nursery spreads everything over 12 months so your monthly fee doesn't change, which is much more preferable to being hit with a random large bill out of nowhere!