Is this normal at nursery?

[RugratMum]

So, DD (3) started nursery a few months ago, just a couple of days a week. Sometimes she'll come home and tell me she was crying because she got hurt, but when I query with the staff it's completely denied. I know kids lie sometimes, but DD was adamant on a couple of these occasions, which is unlike her (she lies with a big grin on her face and will admit that she was telling stories after a moment).

I went to pick DD up the other day and saw a younger child in the courtyard (probably 1-1.5, different class to DD) fall and hit his head. He sat crying for a short while but the nursery workers were talking amongst themselves at the opposite end of the courtyard so didn't see him and I ended up calling out repeatedly in order to flag someone down to point him out. It did make me wonder if perhaps the staff aren't being particularly vigilant. I did ask DD if she thinks they don't notice when she cries and she said yes, but it was a leading question so it's hardly definitive.

Is that normal at a nursery or should I be concerned? Do I need to say something?

Not normal

Staff shouldnt all be together at one end of outdoor (or any) area. They should be spread out supervising and interacting with children.

Yes, you need to say something. It isn't acceptable that you had to bring their attention to a child who had fallen, hit his head and was crying.

Was the child really so young? Ratios should be high at 1-1.5. You should raise that with the manager.

Not normal.

DD will sometimes have a scrape or say someone hurt her and the staff won't know anything about it but that's because she didn't particularly react at the time. Other days they'll tell me about something that she doesn't seem bothered about at all by pickup or didn't leave a mark. So same as when DD is with me, in other words!

Not normal at all, I'm an early years practitioner and I'd be ashamed to work somewhere like that.

If you aren't happy, pull her out and find a better place. I'm of the opinion that if your gut is telling you something isn't right, then listen to it.

No, it’s totally unacceptable. Staff shouldn’t be huddled together chatting, what if a child choked or fell unconscious.

@OutDamnPigeonOut

Was the child really so young? Ratios should be high at 1-1.5. You should raise that with the manager.

I think, considering further, he must have been 1.5-2. my kids are quite large for their age so I find it hard to estimate the age of others.

Sounds like I'll need to send in an email. Or maybe a phone call.

Obviously accidents will happen but staff should be watching the children and able to respond when they hear a cry even if they miss the incident

@Sirzy

Obviously accidents will happen but staff should be watching the children and able to respond when they hear a cry even if they miss the incident

I think they must have been too far away to hear him over the background noise and chatter. To be fair, once they understood what I was saying (I think initially they thought I was being impatient or something, so they ignored me the first couple of times I tried to flag them down), one did run over, scoop the kid up and thank me.

Not normal in a school nursery or a nursery school but very common in the PVI settings around here. They don't have to have the same number or level of qualified staff so often people work there who either don't care or don't have a clue what they are doing. Definitely look for a different nursery if the staff are all just sitting around chatting to each other. They should be interacting with children for the vast majority of the time.

They don't have to have the same number or level of qualified staff

They do.

The problem is finding good, qualified staff who are prepared to work 10 hour shifts for NMW all year round.

I w just left my nursery but this would NEVER happen. We’re watching the children all the time because we’re actually playing with them!

Senior staff would sharply put a stop to anyone stood chatting! We don’t have time to talk about anything that’s not child related!

Please report this, and listen to your daughter.

@Slothbynameandnature

The problem is finding good, qualified staff who are prepared to work 10 hour shifts for NMW all year round.

Which is a more pronounced problem in PVIs than in LA-funded settings IME. I don't know any maintained nursery schools, school nurseries, or children's centres where the nursery staff work 10 hour shifts, or earn NMW, and many have more staff than strictly required for ratios. In turn they then get the pick of good, motivated staff...

It is, however, often more difficult as a parent to find full time childcare this way. My DD is at a lovely nursery school but they finish at 3...

Not normal. I’d take my child out of that place and find somewhere better.

I would be making a complaint directly to Ofsted

Children do slip over all the time if she’s crying then something is wrong. But if the staff have checked and no obvious bump or cut there isn’t much they can do unless head injury and must be recorded. Some kids do cry out of shock and pain rather than getting an actual injury. I can understand if no cut or bruise and staff therefore haven't passed it onto member of staff who’s on the later shift to tell you. There is difference between ignoring a crying child and missing actual injury and checking child is ok then taking no further action and you not being told. If you told parents every time someone cried over sharing a toy or bumping into a chair or falling out with a. Friend you never get anything done.

End of the day if you have niggles and don’t feel like your child is being listening they will only grow. Go with what your gut is feeling.

They don't have to have the same number or level of qualified staff

They do.

They don't, school nurseries have to have a teacher, as do nursery schools, PVIs don't.

not normal
report it to Ofsted

Would Ofsted care? I think they say you've got to take it up with the nursery directly first.

I looked into it because this nursery doesn't do the 'key worker' thing with the kids. They have explained to me on multiple occasions that the key worker has no more interaction with a child than anyone else, they just do the paperwork for that child.

@RugratMum

Would Ofsted care? I think they say you've got to take it up with the nursery directly first.

I looked into it because this nursery doesn't do the 'key worker' thing with the kids. They have explained to me on multiple occasions that the key worker has no more interaction with a child than anyone else, they just do the paperwork for that child.

That's quite normal I think? At our nursery we have Key Children, but I care for them all. However I do all of the tracking/observations for those children.

Sorry pressed send too soon!

However, we are also given key children based on which children gel with adults better - so if a child starts and they start to bond with me over the other adults, then often that child would be allocated to me (assuming I don't already have more key children than others)

I think the intention behind key workers is based on the attachment theory, that kids need one main adult to feel secure in a setting. So best practice is to have one key worker who does the most with the kid- handled drop offs and pick ups and most of the interaction where possible. I know of a couple of nurseries who do it this way.

Trust your gut & find a new nursery

The key person system is about attachment not paperwork
I’m shocked that a nursery would tell you otherwise
Please find a better nursery, yours sounds awful