Nursery fees when not attending at no fault of your own

[FleeceDad]

Hi All,

I just wanted to get some feedback on nursery payments when your child can’t attend.

My daughter goes to a reputable nursery that’s a chain where she goes 4 days a week. It’s a contract agreement where we pay a consistent monthly fee that is calculated based on the cost for 4 days per week and requires a 4 week notice period for taking our daughter out before we’re not liable for fees.

I completely understand this arrangement as from the nurseries perspective, they need to forecast well in advance how many children will be attending so they can arrange staff, food etc to accommodate. Therefore, if my daughter didn’t attend nursery without good reason, I still have to pay for it. I’m fine with that.

However, there have been circumstances where my daughter has been unable to attend nursery for reasons out of the realms of my control and I’ve been expected to pay for it. For example, my daughter having to self isolate due to coming in contact with someone with covid and a staff shortage at the nursery due to adverse weather conditions.

This rather frustrates me as essentially I’m paying for a service (costing £57 per day) that I’m not getting. The financial impact is also heightened as I have to take time off work on the days she can’t attend to look after her and as a contractor, I don’t get paid for that. This means that the cost of my daughter not attending nursery is essentially hundreds of pounds per day!

Is this the case for all nurseries? Am I being unreasonable in expecting to not have to absorb the full cost when my daughter can’t attend at no fault of my/our own?

The way I see it if the nursery is unable to provide the service you are laying for they should not charge.

If you are unable to send your daughter for whatever reasons you still pay.

I think you should have to pay if your daughter is self isolating. But if the nursery is short staffed I think you shouldn’t

We don't have to pay if they have to self isolate due to another case. We would pay if they are positive for covid though. We don't have to pay if they can't open for staff shortage.

Yabu-it’s not their fault you aren’t using the place. If you want the place to remain you need to pay.

Agree with others - staff shortages they should pay for. I wouldn't expect to pay if DS is ill or we keep him home. When his bubble burst last time and the whole class had to isolate, we did get a refund but I've heard that's pretty unusual.

I think if she’s not going because they are under staffed or she’s been a close contact with a covid case at nursery then you shouldn’t pay and legally you don’t have to

There was guidance sent out to settings recently about charging policy, and they aren't supposed to charge for when a child isn't able to attend due to isolating/collapsed bubbles etc. Will try to find a link.

We pay if DD sick, isolating etc.I’m fine with that.

We wouldn’t be charged if nursery is closed by them, so if they had no staff etc.

Self isolation - not nursery's fault, you still pay.
Adverse weather - not nursery's fault, you still pay.
Staff shortages - not your problem, you don't pay.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/nursery-and-early-years-sector-covid-19-restrictions-and-consumer-law/nursery-and-early-years-sector-covid-19-restrictions-and-consumer-law-advice

Totally normal for you to have to pay if your daughter was self isolating. That’s not their fault.
But it is their fault if they didn’t have enough staff in. You shouldn’t have to pay for that.
My kids have left now and although we always had to pay the agreed amount our nursery were always super good at “crediting” days not used. So when they were sick, other than the first day, they’d let me send them in on extra days once recovered. Generally there was no problem “swapping” days which was enormously appreciated.

The general principle is that providers should not charge parents or carers for services that cannot be provided. If there is a barrier to accessing childcare, based on government guidance or the law, the provider should not charge the parents or carers for this period. For example, from 28 September people in England are required by law to self-isolatee_ if they test positive for coronavirus or are contacted by NHS Test and Trace. Accordingly, if a child is self-isolating having been contacted by NHS Test and Trace, the provider should not charge the parent or carer for this period.

Quoted from www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-early-years-and-childcare-closures/coronavirus-covid-19-early-years-and-childcare-closures#considerations-for-operating-the-setting

The nursery I used closed between Christmas and New year, but still charged full fees for the week.
It once shut because of Norovirus and charged as usual.
I think it's normal for the sector as they need to predict income
Ours was not for profit, but still insanely expensive.

Regardless of whether it's normal or not, you should not be charged if your child can't attend due to the government rules on self isolation, nor if nursery closes as staff have to self isolate.

It's probably going to mean some go out of business, though.

@Kolo

Regardless of whether it's normal or not, you should not be charged if your child can't attend due to the government rules on self isolation, nor if nursery closes as staff have to self isolate.

It's probably going to mean some go out of business, though.

Does this apply even if the child is self isolating due to a contact outside of nursery? We currently aren’t paying because the nursery is closed due to a positive case, but if we took DD out to see family or whatever and then they tested positive, I’d expect to still pay because it’s not the nursery’s fault that DD would be isolating.

It's the same at my child's nursery, it was closed for a week due to a positive case, the nursery was only closed for 3 days due to bank holidays and the weekend but we still had to pay for those 3 days.

If my daughter is off for any reason at all we still have to pay.

@Meredithgrey1 yes - see my post above the one you quoted. If a child can't attend because of government rules (in this case being 'told' to isolate because of being a close contact) the nursery cannot charge.

All settings should have read this guidance so they probably do know that they aren't supposed to, just trying it on.

We got a full refund for 10 days when my son had to self isolate because of a positive case in his nursery

Ours charges for self-isolating for contacts outside nursery, but not if there's a case in the bubble at nursery.

We've had two self-isolations due to covid cases at nursery, and of course, the staff in the room have to isolate too. If you are isolating due to a contact outside nursery, and nursery have the staff and a space they are holding for you, I think it's fair to charge (the same way they would for other illness/unplanned absence)

Interested in the nurseries position if a child’s outside contact resulted in the whole nursery bubble having to isolate and the subsequent loss of income. I’m guessing they’d have to suck it up?

I think the use of the word ‘should’ in the phrase ‘should not charge’ in the guidance has given rise to confusion and therefore the continued charging of this element by some nurseries. There is no definite instruction, just an expectation by Government that it will not happen, however this is not how a lot of nurseries normally contract with parents.

@OnceUponAMidnightBeery valid point. However, I imagine they would be able to leverage government schemes like furlough and most probably have insurance in place to cover loss of income in that situation. The parents don’t have that option unfortunately

At my nursery I pay full cost if my son is ill and cannot attend. The nursery decided to close early for Xmas and between Xmas and new year so that the staff could see there families without worry of passing covid on. I paid half pay for these days. Our bubble has burst twice with other babies or the teachers having covid so my son having to isolate. I paid half pay for these. When it first happened I asked what should happen payment wise and they said you can choose to pay full, half or nothing. I chose half so it matched bank holidays. I can't afford to pay full when I have to take unpaid time off work but half we can manage and I want the nursery to keep a float