Possible over-reaction - desperately need some perspective/objective advice.

[Cashncarry]

DD is coming up to 3 years old. She's been going to a very small private nursery full-time since she was 15 months old. She loves all the girls, they love her to bits BUT since moving to the biggies room (3 plus) over the summer, we've encountered some problems as follows (with solutions where appropriate):

1. After first moving, DD coming home saying Girl X and Girl Y (both about a year older) are saying that they don't want to be her friend. DH and I noticing that said 2 girls are saying that DD's been naughty when we pick her up. We both tell her to ignore them and say "I've plenty of friends, thank you".

2. About a month later, DD saying that Girl X and Boy Z are saying "her shoes are rubbish", "her face is rubbish" calling her "stupid" and "idiot". (We don't use these words at home). DH wants to report it, I persuade him that DD can handle it and we teach her to say "That's very rude. I don't play with rude girls/boys. If you say that again, I will tell a grown up".

3. A couple of weeks ago, DD is playing with DH on Sunday afternoon. DH is lying on his back on the floor, DD launches herself onto him belly to belly (IYSWIM). I ask her what she's doing. She says she's playing the "humping game" which Boy Z taught her.
   Filled with horror at the word "humping" (which we have definitely never used - it's akin to the C word in my view), I tell her that's a very naughty game and if Boy Z wants to play it again, she should tell a grown up straight away. DD's at home with me for the next few days (I had hols booked) but I call the nursery and have a word with the manager. She says she'll look into it. When I drop DD off on the Thursday for a couple of hours, I have words with the girls in charge of her room and ask them to keep an eye on her and Boy Z as well as filling them in on the nonsense with Girl X and ask them to keep an eye on their interaction.
   When I pick DD up, I have another word with the nursery manager and say that I have concerns mainly centred around the fact that DD was alone with Boy Z long enough for this to happen unnoticed. She remarks that Boy Z has never used this language in front of any of the girls, neither have any of them noticed Girl X being (for want of a better word) mean to DD. I'm left with the niggling suspicion that DD is being branded a liar but due to a previously good rship with the nursery I leave the problem with them and am assured they'll investigate.

4. Fast forward to today. DH picks DD up from nursery. I get home some half an hour later and notice a rather large bump in the top centre of DD's forehead. She tells me that Girl X threw a torch at her head. I ask if Girl X was told off and am told that Teacher A (whose name I don't recognise) told her off and Girl X said sorry. I ask DH if he was asked to sign the accident book - he was not. In fact he didn't even notice the bruise and no one said anything to him.

I'm so sorry for the mammoth post of epic proportions but I really am very upset and at a total loss as to how to handle it. My confidence in the nursery is fading fast, despite the friendship that has grown between myself and her carers since she started there. I have underlying concerns about the fact that DD is not in a particular routine and seems to spend an awful lot of time in "free play" but have not expressed these reservations for fear of seeming like a pushy "alpha mummy" who wants her child reading and writing before the age of 3.

I need some MN wisdom - what's my next step? Am I over-reacting? I must admit to nearly crying when I saw a huge purple bruise and am resisting the urge to call the nursery manager (I know her mob no) and get to the bottom of this. Obviously I haven't as that would be an invasion of privacy!

DH is all set to go all guns blazing into the nursery tomorrow when he does the drop-off but I don't see the point when I'm not in a position to sort out any alternative care if it all kicks off in some kind of wild west style confrontation.

Am I:

(a) totally overreacting because I have severe PFB tendencies and my next step should be to laugh this off and casually mention to the staff to try and make sure that DD is not battered and bullied on a regular basis; or

(b) a pathetic parent incapable of protecting their gift from God and my next step should be to grow some balls and tell the nursery to sort themselves out or I will withdraw DD?

Be Gentle - remember working mum guilt is at play here. I've just started a new job which is taking up most of my time and energy and I feel like this is going to be the straw that broke the camel's back

Answers on a postcard please...

NurseryJo - your post made me cry for some unfathomable reason. Maybe the use of the word bullying, I don't know. I do appreciate your perspective though and I agree with a lot of the points you've made, particularly about the staff having to have eyes and ears everywhere and not necessarily relying on the "he said, she said" stuff.

I will/will ask DH to use that language tomorrow "review of procedures" and hope that one or other of us can stay calm enough to get our point across!

TBH, I did wonder if all the stress with my new job was making me blow this out of proportion. Thanks to you guys I feel a bit more confident that it's a problem that needs tackling and crucially that it's a problem that's not necessarily insurmountable. Thank you.

Just caught up with your thread. Sounds like a good plan-- and don't beat yourself up. I think you are tackling this at the right time.

I would recommend a nice childminder. Often they have 2-3 other kids and toys just as good as a nursery... and I think consistency of care is great ( my dd was a nursery where staff were always leaving -- she has now had the same childminder for 3 years and she really is like part of the family)

Good luck

imo and experieence (but of course all children are different) a nanny/au pair or v good childminder (be careful here though that the chidlminder is a good match for your children)...in combination with the local pre school - your dd will soon have 2.5 hours of pre school paid for via government grant.

Its bad enough having to put up with other children's bad & bullying behaviour at school let alone when you are a toddler - porr thing. She sounds ab lovely and very capable of saying what has happened in a way you can both understand.

Franny - thank you. Somehow I knew that was a pfb mummy problem (thanks to MN!).

Phantom - LOL at control freak - that's such an accurate description about wanting to know facial expressions etc. I have meetings from 9am to 12pm so really can't be there at drop-off but am planning to talk to them at pick-up. I just think it might be more appropriate to tackle the problem first thing in the morning...

Thx bluejelly and virgo - I didn't pick a childminder at first because I thought DD would be better off in a more controlled environment at 15 months where I could be sure no smacking or leaving on her own would occur. Now I think her needs and abilities have shifted to make a childminder/nanny/au pair more suitable so am coming round to the idea.

I know that she will encounter all these problems at school but I just feel 3 years is just too young to be subject to this sort of thing - sorry PFB mummy tendencies surfacing again

Oh NurseryJo - you didn't upset me at all, I'm just feeling a bit low with all this stuff and I'm sure PMT is playing a role somewhere

I did think of writing it down but it just seemed so formal where our rship had been so informal and jovial. But I guess a written summary would impress the seriousness of my concerns, given that they know I'm not that sort of person.

I will definitely take on board your suggestion to spend an hour there - it might help my confidence in the nursery generally. I'm not sure they're following any curriculum although their ofsted report says they are - their report does not raise any behaviour issues and paints a pretty glowing picture, which has been my experience with them thus far.

One of my niggles is that we don't get any progress reports (no daily sheets) and they're aren't any open events for parents to ask about their child. I've put down on my suggestions sheet a few months ago but nothing has come up.

Now I'm waffling

Well, I will come out of the closet now and tell you thats exactly what I did with my DD. I put her in nursery as a baby believing it to be the best and safest place for her at the time.

I always had my niggly doubts and when she came up to 2 and a half she went to playgroup for 2.5 hours and then a fantastic childminder picked her up. The childminder had my DS and another girl her age to look after.

They had some fantastic times, the Childminder was able to do with her what I wanted to be doing (eg, trips to the park, shopping, get togethers with other mums).

I never once doubted my childminder but I did always have niggly doubts about nursery.

Wish I'd done it sooner with her but there again hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I am not trying to persuade you either way, by the way. As I said before only you know your daughter and whats suits her needs best.

My boy went to nursery until he went to school and still raves on about how much he liked it there (he's now 7).Somehow it just never seemed an issue with him.

Phantom - our experiences sound so similar although I am a few years behind you! I'm definitely thinking that it's time to move on childcare wise but I'm so loathe to take her away from an environment which has cherished and nurtured her for so long.

I guess maybe someone's trying to tell me something with all the recent events! I would have preferred to move her of our own accord rather than our hand being forced but this is as good a time as any to start putting my thoughts into action.

I've decided against making any snap decisions though - I really do want to find a carer which will meet all her needs and that we'll all feel comfortable with plus I want to give the nursery an opportunity to provide a solution rather than grabbing her and running a mile which is how I feel a little right now!

Well that sounds like a good plan, I agree, don't do anything rash..to be honest it took me ages to make the decision to take her out of nursery (months).
Good Luck.

phantom - excellent advice - what's right when your child cannot expres themseleves might not be right when they can.

I felt happy with childminder/nanny when my children could speak and let em know what had happened in the day..but the baby room at nursery seemed much 'safer'.

Its really important that you all feel happy wtih the choice - once the niggles start - ime - they never go away....so ob still sort them out but work hard at finding an alternative and happier envirnoment.

NurseryJo - there haven't been any consultation meetings since she joined nearly 2 years ago but we have had a feedback sheet once which I filled in and sent back but nothing was discussed after.

We do get verbal feedback - the daily sheets stopped a year ago which makes sense given what you've said. There's a bit of paper tacked up outside their room which lists their activities but only says times and what they do. It hasn't changed since she moved to that room. I think it says "garden/freeplay, snack, freeplay, lunch, nap, snack, freeplay, garden".

Will have a closer look at the noticeboard (which I only ever glance at ) but normally I get good verbal feedback from someone in her room. DH thinks it's a bit hit and miss but I think that's because his eyes glaze over when they start discussing how many times she's weed/pooed!

thanks for your thoughts - I never expected to get a nursery's perspective so it's very helpful for calming down my craziness!

sorry to butt in when you have had loads of good and supportive advice, but your job sounds pressured and therefore I would strongly recommend employing a nanny, but on the basis of offering a 'share' to another family. It will still be expensive tbh but it will be a lot less than having a whole nanny, you will retain control by employing them, and - best of all - you do not have the stress of having to get your child out of the door in the morning!

If too expensive then maybe look for a share on the non-employing side. That's pretty much the same as childminding but I have to say my experience of childminding was of rather a lot of children before and after school, which at the time didn't suit ds. Obviously cms and their circumstances vary.

Sharing clearly needs to be discussed with the nanny, but I have enjoyed such a wonderful nanny-share myself (on the non-employing side so much cheaper ) that I feel evangelical about it, and believe it could suit you. The ability to come home and have a really good chat with the nanny about EVERYTHING that happened that day is absolutely amazing - now ds has preschool I really miss that.

Hope things resolve happily for you all.

Choosyfloosy - shared nanny? Not considered that at all so thank you. I'm not sure it would be a go-er here but it's an attractive idea, especially the non-employing part! I'm out of London and not living in an area that attracts good calibre nannies I think. working mums are pretty thin on the ground here especially working mums with high-pressure jobs that may require the occasional after 6pm care.

How do I go about making enquiries about this sort of thing? Is it an ad in the paper/net? Is there a website or publication you could point me to?

Would a childminder be a better option. My ds is nearly 2 and has been with his c.m since 5 months old. They adore each other and he adores the other children. The slightest bump I am notified and sign all forms asap. My C.M has just had her annual ofsted check up and had exemplary in all categories. Use the social services website to get a local list of all registered c/ms.

NurseryJo - I'm in deepest darkest South Beds, not far from Milton Keynes. Recommendations welcome!

Cheers for the fab mummy comment - I need all the ego-stroking I can get at the mo

Crikey - it's nearly 11pm and I've only read one file where I have 3 to work on Looks like I'm going to be burning the midnight oil....

Treehugger - does she live near me? Can I borrow her??

Cashncarry, milton keynes is only about 40 mins from me, do feel free to contact if needs be.

Fraid not, I am in dumpling devon land.
I would be absolutely lost without her. She is my little ones 2nd mummy and I have no probs with that at all. I could not be so happy with working a 4 day week without her. Look into the local list and ask what their scores are with ofsted. Make a decision from there.
PS Most C/m's are cheaper than nurseries aswell. Mine cost approx £23.00 per day from 8.45 - 5.00. x

NurseryJo - I wouldn't move DD to an MK nursery as it's too far but would love to hear about your potential nanny if you have CAT.

Serendippity - will CAT you tomorrow when I'm feeling a bit more lucid!

Treehugger - at your CMs rates. My nursery is £32 a day and most CMs round here don't charge much less than that for the same hours. I'm very especially at you being in Devon - sounds heavenly

Great, hope you find a good cm.

Nanny-shares - can't help enormously - this one came up via the local residents' association newsletter - completely random as there's never been another advertised there afaik. Is there anything local in Milton Keynes equivalent to Daily Info, which is the Oxford Bible for this sort of thing?

Put the word out. If you know anybody who knows anybody who employs a nanny, be pushy, get in touch, say that you are looking for somebody and you never know what will float back. Even try a card at the newsagent/local noticeboard: Are You Interested in Sharing Your Nanny? It's increasingly common so you never know.

I have tried other websites. I have had Gumtree local sites recommended to me but I have never found much on there that really was local tbh. Your experience might be different.

There's a website called sharingcare or similar where you can register with other famiies in your area and if you have just one littlie it honestly is a great option. I wish you all the best because trying to juggle work and childcare is a nightmare. It will come right in the end, but you need to get your hands on the reins and decide what's right for you