Heard nursery staff verbally scream at my child

[user1492716806]

Just need some opinions on this as i've been so unsettled since I heard what I did but the nursery management are being very cold about it all. I have taken her out of the nursery as a result.

My 2.5 year old daughter who used to wave me merrily goodbye when going to nursery has been resisting going in for some time. Crying and clinging to me at the door when I leave her etc. Up until a few weeks ago she was very happy and confident going in, sometimes never looking back. Now they have to tear her off me. She is quite verbal and often tells me she is scared of a particular staff member who works in the office. This lady is quite intimidating to look at appearance wise so I assumed she was a little frightened by her physicality and that was that....well turns out she's scared of her for a whole other reason. When I dropped her off last week she was again crying at the door. Her main class teacher took her in but forgot to close the main door behind her. I also forgot to hand something in so decided to enter soon after. I could hear my daughter screaming and still resisting to get in. From what I could make out she threw herself on the floor rather than go into the class. There is another door in between the main door and the nursery so I couldn't make out what happened visually but I suddenly heard one of the office staff come in out of nowhere and scream aggressively "I SAID GET UP OFF THE FLOOR. GET UP OFF THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW. YOUR DISTUBRING ME AND MY MEETING!!! as my daughter continues to wail. Trust me, reading this on paper might not sound that bad but it was so aggressive and horrible that I initially assumed she was ranting and raving at another adult on the phone. Could not believe when the penny dropped that she was actually addressing my upset 2 year old child. I literally froze in shock and walked away rather than go and barge in. How ridiculous am I? I called up after 10 mins in tears, asking this particular staff member if she thought her language and tone were acceptable. She denied everything of course - trying to pin the blame on my daughter being unsettled because she is coming in an hour later than her usual time. She never mentioned any reason as to why she would scream at my child in that manner.

I contacted the nursery's Director and explained what I heard. I then get the whole 'I don't know what you THINK you heard but so and so isn't like that etc etc.....' I'm in tears on the phone recalling the whole thing imagining my daughter still hysterical in that place. I asked the Director if she could have a look at the CCTV to see if she could at least view the encounter. She calls me back later to say she has had a look and that the context would explain what I 'perceived' to be harshness as my child was sitting in a hazardous part of the doorway and this staff member was trying to stop my child from getting caught in the door. I do not believe a word of this. Even if true why would she rant and rave that my child was disturbing her and her meeting? I have asked to see the footage but she is postponing it for 2 weeks as she is 'away this week' but she seems unfazed by what she saw. I'm wondering if I need to even bother with going in to look at the CCTV as the audio won't be heard and that imo is the most distressing part. But a part of me wants to see as I don't believe for a minute this teacher was trying to put out any danger. But even if she was trying to avoid a hazard does that still excuse her aggression? I'm worried that if I view the CCTV and can see that she was trying to avert some sort of danger, that i'm forced to concede that what I heard wasn't that bad when it was worse than bad - it was tantamount to bullying and being verbally slapped.

My other concerns are that

• it seemed that this is the way this staff member normally 'handles' my child. The demeaning and cruel way she spoke seemed like like nothing unusual. I somehow don't believe this was an isolated event.

• the class teacher who initially met me at the door was the only immediate witness and I naively assumed she would corroborate what I heard but no she was defending her colleague

• my daughter vomited at the nursery that same day according to the class teacher but they don't know why....I asked my daughter why she threw up (i.e. eating too fast etc) and she said she just wanted mummy and daddy so I again assume she was crying her eyes out and got sick from anxiety.

• she was not herself that evening - very subdued and complaining of stomach and back aches. We spent an evening in A&E. I thought she must be coming down with an infection but nothing medically indicated that according to the doctor. When I saw her right as rain the following morning I came to realise she was probably suffering from anxiety being in the nursery environment. I tried to explain this in an emotional email to the Director and rather than be sympathetic to my child's distress (regardless of trying to protect her staff), she completely ignored my daughter's pain and feelings and simply said 'when would you like to come in and view the CCTV.' Considering I have had a 4 year relationship with this Director and the nursery with my other child, I am absolutely appalled by the lack of concern. She tries to promote the Nursery's Montessori, Let the Children Lead the Way, Vegan, Earth-Friendly ethos but she's proven to me its bullshit. When it now comes to actual parental concern and a child's emotional and physical wellbeing she wants to be very black and white about the whole thing. Imagine that? Paying 1k a month for my child for to be verbally attacked whilst distressed, making herself sick

I've taken her out - but my husband seems to think she should stay where she is as a matter of principle and that the nursery should be the ones to be held accountable and staff should be dismissed. I can't see that happening at all.

[jackfruitz]

Do not send your child back, what a horrible environment. I would complain to ofsted and to the Montessori Society (assuming they are accredited) but I would not send your child back based on principle. You need to put your child’s needs first. Good luck.

[LaBellina]

I would immediately remove my child from this nursery and make sure to warn every parent that I knew to never trust this nursery with their children.
Truly awful behavior and I think this place is a danger to the mental well-being of any child with the dismissive attitude of that director. Completely unacceptable.

[snaxinyourslacks]

I used to manage a Montessori pre school. I can tell you that if a member of staff shouted at a child like that, they would no longer work for me. I think it's outrageous that the director is trying to protect the staff member and fob you off. The correct response should have been to profusely apologise to you and tell you what further action would be taken and what they were doing to prevent it happening again (i.e. staff member disciplined or dismissed, further positive behaviour management training for all staff etc)

Even if there was a small chance that the director was telling the truth and the staff member was trying to move your dd out of the doorway, she was going about it in the wrong way. If I was the staff member trying to move a child out of a dangerous situation, I would go down to their level, ask them to move because it's dangerous. Obviously being 2.5 and upset most likely they wouldn't move. I would calmly tell the child I will be picking them up and moving them to a safer space.

OP, if I was you I would make a formal complaint to the nursery and follow the complaints procedure which should be on their website and also immediately remove your dd.

I'm sorry you and your dd have had to go through this, I find it absolutely shocking.

[snaxinyourslacks]

@jackfruitz I doubt they are accredited going by what's happened, but you never know....

[StressyMcstresserson]

@esmethurst

You didn't go and get your child when she was being screamed at?

You took your child to A&E for a tummy ache?

Nope. Not buying this. No one is that stupid.

So rude!

[jessycake]

Take her out , it will be near impossible to prove unless there is another independent witness , if the CCTV has no sound it will not really show much, as most children that are having a tantrum in an awkward place will be spoken to firmly . It could be that this person is in quite a senior position and staff are a bit intimidated by her as well .
I would go with my gut over this , as she isn't happy at the setting at the moment .

[rorosemary]

She is clearly very unhappy there, so take her out regardless of what your husband or the nursery says. You know your gut feeling is correct.

I've seen more threads today where posters are over-the-top blaming the OP for the problem. I have no idea why it's more than usual today, but most of us do have some empathy in us. You clearly had a flight reaction, which is a very normal biological reaction, just as normal as the fight reactions the storming in momma bears claim to have if they were you. It isn't something you control at that precise moment, so don't let them make you feel bad about it. Now your brain has actually been able to process what happened you can take the necessary parenting steps.

[KOKOagainandagain]

Yes it is impossible to 'prove' given that the narrative is that small children lie and mothers are over anxious and all nursery/early years staff are saints whose actions are fully explained by a situation which you can't understand because you weren't there/caught the tail end of etc.

Luckily, OFSTED will look beyond the unreliability of the child/absence or partial presence of the parent, action or non action of the parent and just focus on the safety and suitability of placement, including staff.

I didn't tear a strip off the nursery worker when I went unannounced and early to pick up DS1 and walked in to find him cowering distraught in a corner being screamed at. I froze. I accepted in that moment that I didn't know the full story. It was only later when the shock had worn off and I had time to process it that I realised that it was totally unacceptable and no story could justify disproportionate action.

My complaint to OFSTED was not affected by my less than perfect response in the moment and an unannounced spot check was carried out. Whilst they did not witness this behaviour from staff, there were other relatively minor issues that they could 'prove' and rating went from outstanding to rock bottom.

Don't beat yourself up OP and don't give headspace to posters trying to divert attention to you and your alleged failings.

It is difficult to trust your feelings when your distraught child is peeled off you but you are told they are 'fine' once you have left. Especially when you want to believe it due to work pressure and the bit in the middle is missed out in any feedback.

[faithfulbird20]

Why did you keep her in? Take her out it sounds like abuse from that staff! It is abuse! Report them to ofsted or whoever and make sure you leave them a review on google and everywhere else. Don't send her there again. Poor child is probably traumatised. What's worse is that they don't even acknowledge it.

[faithfulbird20]

As someone who had anxiety as a young child, I'm not surprised you took her to a and e. Your daughter probably made herself so sick from what she experienced that day and what she's been going through it previously too. I'm sure it wasn't a one off incident. I'm so sorry it's happened. Do they have governors or anything or someone more senior? Is honestly leave reviews left right and centre and let them know. Give your child a break and send her elsewhere.

[FTMF30]

@faithfulbird20 Have you not read the OP's posts? OP has removed her child from the nursery.

[user1492716806]

That's what has perturbed me the most. It just seemed so natural for this member to rage, bully and belittle an uncooperative 2 year old for being upset at not wanting to go inside her classroom door. And the fact that they thought I had gone. That upsets me even more.

KeepOnKeepingOnAgainandAgain - your'e very kind. I almost feel like my reaction might negate any consequences for the nursery. When they told me about the hazard on the phone I almost tried to rationalise the whole thing as it just couldn't seem true that a place you take your child to feel happy and nurtured in (and a place I never had an inkling about in the nearly 5 years I have dealt with them) could actually be doing this to a child behind closed doors. If my daughter was happy going in every day like she used to, I would have likely put the incident down as a horrible one-off (although still unacceptable and would formally complain) The fact that she is literally clinging to me at the door, i'm now starting to connect the dots. It's no longer a place she feels safe or secure in. I don't think its a consequence of lockdown as when they reopened she was happy enough. I know the nursery is struggling post covid and staff have left etc.. perhaps this staff member is struggling but that kind of behaviour is inexcusable.

Was tempted to do the social media tirade but I think best to await the outcome from Ofsted and other agencies first.

[Fandabydosey]

I think you should still view the cctv, because you were unsure of exactly what had happened. Some Cctv does have sound it depends on the system. At least if you view it you will know. Your relationship with the nursery is beyond repair so you have nothing to lose.