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Heard nursery staff verbally scream at my child

63 replies

user1492716806 · 22/10/2020 09:33

Just need some opinions on this as i've been so unsettled since I heard what I did but the nursery management are being very cold about it all. I have taken her out of the nursery as a result.

My 2.5 year old daughter who used to wave me merrily goodbye when going to nursery has been resisting going in for some time. Crying and clinging to me at the door when I leave her etc. Up until a few weeks ago she was very happy and confident going in, sometimes never looking back. Now they have to tear her off me. She is quite verbal and often tells me she is scared of a particular staff member who works in the office. This lady is quite intimidating to look at appearance wise so I assumed she was a little frightened by her physicality and that was that....well turns out she's scared of her for a whole other reason. When I dropped her off last week she was again crying at the door. Her main class teacher took her in but forgot to close the main door behind her. I also forgot to hand something in so decided to enter soon after. I could hear my daughter screaming and still resisting to get in. From what I could make out she threw herself on the floor rather than go into the class. There is another door in between the main door and the nursery so I couldn't make out what happened visually but I suddenly heard one of the office staff come in out of nowhere and scream aggressively "I SAID GET UP OFF THE FLOOR. GET UP OFF THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW. YOUR DISTUBRING ME AND MY MEETING!!! as my daughter continues to wail. Trust me, reading this on paper might not sound that bad but it was so aggressive and horrible that I initially assumed she was ranting and raving at another adult on the phone. Could not believe when the penny dropped that she was actually addressing my upset 2 year old child. I literally froze in shock and walked away rather than go and barge in. How ridiculous am I? I called up after 10 mins in tears, asking this particular staff member if she thought her language and tone were acceptable. She denied everything of course - trying to pin the blame on my daughter being unsettled because she is coming in an hour later than her usual time. She never mentioned any reason as to why she would scream at my child in that manner.

I contacted the nursery's Director and explained what I heard. I then get the whole 'I don't know what you THINK you heard but so and so isn't like that etc etc.....' I'm in tears on the phone recalling the whole thing imagining my daughter still hysterical in that place. I asked the Director if she could have a look at the CCTV to see if she could at least view the encounter. She calls me back later to say she has had a look and that the context would explain what I 'perceived' to be harshness as my child was sitting in a hazardous part of the doorway and this staff member was trying to stop my child from getting caught in the door. I do not believe a word of this. Even if true why would she rant and rave that my child was disturbing her and her meeting? I have asked to see the footage but she is postponing it for 2 weeks as she is 'away this week' but she seems unfazed by what she saw. I'm wondering if I need to even bother with going in to look at the CCTV as the audio won't be heard and that imo is the most distressing part. But a part of me wants to see as I don't believe for a minute this teacher was trying to put out any danger. But even if she was trying to avoid a hazard does that still excuse her aggression? I'm worried that if I view the CCTV and can see that she was trying to avert some sort of danger, that i'm forced to concede that what I heard wasn't that bad when it was worse than bad - it was tantamount to bullying and being verbally slapped.

My other concerns are that

  • it seemed that this is the way this staff member normally 'handles' my child. The demeaning and cruel way she spoke seemed like like nothing unusual. I somehow don't believe this was an isolated event.
  • the class teacher who initially met me at the door was the only immediate witness and I naively assumed she would corroborate what I heard but no she was defending her colleague
  • my daughter vomited at the nursery that same day according to the class teacher but they don't know why....I asked my daughter why she threw up (i.e. eating too fast etc) and she said she just wanted mummy and daddy so I again assume she was crying her eyes out and got sick from anxiety.
  • she was not herself that evening - very subdued and complaining of stomach and back aches. We spent an evening in A&E. I thought she must be coming down with an infection but nothing medically indicated that according to the doctor. When I saw her right as rain the following morning I came to realise she was probably suffering from anxiety being in the nursery environment. I tried to explain this in an emotional email to the Director and rather than be sympathetic to my child's distress (regardless of trying to protect her staff), she completely ignored my daughter's pain and feelings and simply said 'when would you like to come in and view the CCTV.' Considering I have had a 4 year relationship with this Director and the nursery with my other child, I am absolutely appalled by the lack of concern. She tries to promote the Nursery's Montessori, Let the Children Lead the Way, Vegan, Earth-Friendly ethos but she's proven to me its bullshit. When it now comes to actual parental concern and a child's emotional and physical wellbeing she wants to be very black and white about the whole thing. Imagine that? Paying 1k a month for my child for to be verbally attacked whilst distressed, making herself sick

I've taken her out - but my husband seems to think she should stay where she is as a matter of principle and that the nursery should be the ones to be held accountable and staff should be dismissed. I can't see that happening at all.

OP posts:
Fleabagster · 22/10/2020 11:14

@user1492716806 I can understand you freezing and walking away - I have that reflex as well in some stressful situations. I’m not proud of it but it’s a real ‘fight or flight’ thing I think. Anyway, just wanted to sympathise with you and say there’s no way I’d be sending my child back to that nursery. Xxx

2020hasbeenbloodyawful · 22/10/2020 11:15

Pick her up, take her out and find somewhere new.

If they're denying it this will not be resolved.

Report to Ofsted what happened and let them do an investigation.

The trust has gone now and you can't have people you don't trust looking after your child.

EggysMom · 22/10/2020 11:20

I took her to A&E cos she was limping and holding her stomach and complaining that she was in pain. I thought urine infection and antibiotics.

That's what your GP surgery is for. Do you really take your daughter straight to A&E for an infection?

esmethurst · 22/10/2020 11:21

You didn't go and get your child when she was being screamed at?

You took your child to A&E for a tummy ache?

Nope. Not buying this. No one is that stupid.

Chocolatehobnob9 · 22/10/2020 11:25

I'm so sorry this has happened.. But i have to agree with posters who have said how could you have walked away and left her when you heard what you did.. I understand you froze in terror and were taken aback by what you heard.. But you consciously made the decision to turn around and walk out. That being said, how they have treated your daughter is absolutely unacceptable.. If this was me, really and truly I'd be marching up to the Directors office and demanding a meeting and also calling every single day to organise. Your DH is wrong about keeping her in as a matter of principle because morally they are wrong in the way they are all backing each other up so even if this particular staff member was dismissed or disciplined, the other colleagues operate the same way. You're within your rights to complain to Ofsted about the way your child has been treated.. Because a nursery setting should encompass safety.. But i agree with previous poster the fact you walked away when you heard your child being verbally abused will probably be discrediting.

FatCatThinCat · 22/10/2020 11:28

I understand the walking away. When I had my DD 30 years ago I was young and unsure. There was one time when another parent started shouting and screaming at her completely unfairly and I was so shocked that I just stood there and did nothing. It'd be very different now with my DS as I have many years of experience and if it happened now I'd rip their bloody head off.

Chocolatehobnob9 · 22/10/2020 11:28

I don't think you deserve abuse either OP.. People will just question why you walked away that's all. We're all mums, we all make mistakes.. The bottom line of it is nobody has the right to verbally abuse your child, especially a member of staff at a nursery you trust.

9ofpentangles · 22/10/2020 11:28

I would try to get a copy of that cctv footage asap in case it mysteriously disappears and carry on with your complaint, while getting some advice from ofsted on how to go about it.

I know why you did what you did because these situations are very surreal and I fully understand the a and e trip in the context of her perhaps having suffered an injury

Graciebobcat · 22/10/2020 11:33

I can understand the freezing and walking away if you had to get to work and were in a bit of a daze. Everyone thinks they will react in a certain way in an emergency situation but adrenaline can make you do unusual things.

Anyway, why is anyone focused on the OP's behaviour?

DD was shouted at, period. No member of staff should ever be raising their voice to a two year old at nursery, for any reason, not ever. It's shit and the OP was right to take her out. The fact that the nursery have tried to brush it all under the carpet reinforces that the OP was correct.

user1492716806 · 22/10/2020 11:38

"Nope. Not buying this. No one is that stupid."

Well i am i guess.

It was evening and GP was closed. Actually not A&E, it was a walk-in urgent clinic.

She's out of nursery and I have complained to Ofsted. But I feel like it's not enough. Feel like that staff member will be getting away with doing this to another child.

OP posts:
MillieVanilla · 22/10/2020 11:39

I don't get why you would walk away?
I heard by accident a trainee teacher going in on my DD in year 4, she was literally tearing strips off her in front of the entire class and DD was hysterical because of it. She was screeching at the top of her lungs right in DDs face that she was a vile child and an animal and she will say sorry now or else.
Now, I used to volunteer in school so the kids knew me. They saw me walk up to the external, open onto the playground, door and they said not one word to her. Likewise the classroom assistant who had stood up to intervene sat back down and nodded at me.
When she paused for breath, I said "so you mind telling me why on earth you feel that abuse is acceptable towards my child"
She shit herself at being caught, the kids had visibly shrunk for weeks whenever they realised they had her that day and now I had found out why.
Turned out DD had asked a boy to move his chair off her satchel strap and he had kicked her hard in the shin. She had cried out in pain (the bruise was livid purple for days) and pushed him as he made to do it again and this arsehole woman had grabbed her by the wrist and yanked her to the front and the demanded she apologise in front of everyone. DD was so hysterical and kept pointing to her leg but this twat ignored her.
There is no way in your position I'd have walked away. Then the place would've had to intervene. They will no doubt say you couldn't have been that concerned if you walked off.

DoTheNextRightThing · 22/10/2020 11:44

This whole situation sounds messy, but I think the bottom line is that if your daughter hates nursery to this degree, you should move her. It's probably a vicious cycle - the more upset your DD is, the more angry this staff member gets, which upsets your DD more, etc.

kattekitt · 22/10/2020 11:45

Adrenaline and fight or flight happened op. It’s easy to say I’d do x y z in this situation but you do not know if you haven’t been there.

OP you know what you should have done and you didn’t, it’s done, you can’t change this.Acknowledge it and move on.

Follow the complaints process then contact ofsted, I would also ensure you see the cctv & ask for a copy also.

I’d suggest keeping your little one at home until you find somewhere she will be happy, I think forcing her to go back may well impact on starting school and possibly even anxiety in the future.

Focus on putting it right going forward you can’t change what’s been done

ktp100 · 22/10/2020 12:14

Are you generally anxious, OP?

I only say this because there seems to be a bit of unusual behaviour here, eg walking away when another adult is screaming at your child and then taking your child to A&E when they have stomach ache.

These are 2 extremes of Motherhood, one non-protective, the other over-protective.

Of course you shouldn't be sending your child back to that nursery but I think you know that. I think you do really need to assess your behaviour here though so that you can assess the situation better in future.

Venicelover · 22/10/2020 12:20

This once happened to one of my children in school.

I heard from the corridor (where I was waiting to see the Head on a PTA issue) a teacher haranguing a child and I went to see what was going on. I couldn't be seen from where I was standing by the long term supply teacher, but I saw her wagging her finger aggressively in the face of my 5-year-old son and screaming red-faced at him to be quiet and sit down. I was horrified. I pushed the door open and walked in, her face was a picture.

I asked her very calmly what the problem was and she said he is very noisy and I need him to be quiet. I asked her if anything else had happened/had he misbehaved in some other way and she said no, but and I quote ' I think he needs taking down a peg or two'.

I simply looked at her in silence for several seconds whilst she thought about what she had said and then I wiped the floor with her very calmly. I didn't shout or scream. I simply told her what I thought of an educational professional who needed to resort to those lengths to control a 5 year old. I also told her that if he needed to be taken down a peg it certainly would not be her that did it.

I walked straight into the Head's office and made a formal complaint. The teacher was disciplined and had to be monitored for several months before she was allowed to take the small nuture group classes on her own.

I could not have walked away OP. By doing so you have minimised the issue.

I hope you manage to get it sorted out.

QuestionableMouse · 22/10/2020 12:26

@EggysMom

I took her to A&E cos she was limping and holding her stomach and complaining that she was in pain. I thought urine infection and antibiotics.

That's what your GP surgery is for. Do you really take your daughter straight to A&E for an infection?

Many practices still aren't seeing patients in person. I'm also assuming that it was after the practice had closed as the op says they were there all night. My area is a bit lacking in OOH care and it probably isn't the only one.
Ori3 · 22/10/2020 12:28

This does sound bad. Poor little one, she was clearly terrified. It made me uncomfortable reading your post. That's the problem with nursey environments, whilst I'm sure 99% of them are lovely spaces for children to be in, you never know what goes on behind closed doors (or not, in your case.)

Don't send her back there. Her resistance was the only real way she could tell you what was happening and how scared/anxious she was. That member of staff sounds horrid. If another adult spoke to me like that I think I'd be terrified/upset, let alone a little 2.5 yr old.

And yes, the tummy-ache etc - all classic signs of anxiety. Not good at all. I think you have a right to be concerned.

NewtoHolland · 22/10/2020 12:33

People saying why did OP walk away, it was probably a very natural high stress fight, flight or freeze response. It's hard to think rationally in a situation like that.
Of course she shouldn't have to go back there, find a new nursery that you can trust xx

Lesserspottedmama · 22/10/2020 12:40

I’ve come to the conclusion a lot of people on here are ugly natured at not people I would want to know in person. Op you were in shock and therefore not thinking straight, don’t listen to all those awful comments decrying you for leaving. Don’t beat yourself up but use this experience as a learning point - you need to be tuned in and listening to your child. Don’t send her back to that place and I would be continuing the complaint to try and protect other children from being abused in the same way. Is there any way your DD can stay at home, sounds like she will need to emotionally heal and rebuild her trust. The amount of people trivialising and normalising what happened to her on this thread is disturbing. Imagine how terrified that child was. So traumatic for you OP and your daughter. I’m sorry, I’ve worked in a nursery years ago and that was reason enough to never send my child to one. Never witnessed anything like that though.

Pinklittle · 22/10/2020 12:45

Remove your child from this nursery then look into it and make a formal complaint

Justajot · 22/10/2020 12:59

In terms of your DH's opinion that the nursery needs to sort this out and your DD should ho back, you should never leave your child in a horrid situation for a point of principle. Yes, the nursery should deal with it properly, but that is a separate issue to whether your DD should go back to somewhere so traumatic.

user1492716806 · 22/10/2020 13:02

@ktp100

Are you generally anxious, OP?

I only say this because there seems to be a bit of unusual behaviour here, eg walking away when another adult is screaming at your child and then taking your child to A&E when they have stomach ache.

These are 2 extremes of Motherhood, one non-protective, the other over-protective.

Of course you shouldn't be sending your child back to that nursery but I think you know that. I think you do really need to assess your behaviour here though so that you can assess the situation better in future.

Yes i do have high anxiety levels and a walkover in general. Always avoiding confrontation. Probably the worst type of mother tbh - rushing to the clinics when child is ill but cant even protect her from being screamed at.

And I have minimised the issue by walking away - obviously they could see that i called straight away to talk to that staff member, asked to speak to the Director and requested CCTV all in the same afternoon but still....

FYI my daughter has not been back to nursery and won't be back there. I also contacted Ofsted the following day. Thanks to the kind poster who PM'd me telling me of the next steps.

OP posts:
LAMPS1 · 22/10/2020 13:06

As hard as it will be, I do think you should follow through and make the appointment to see the cctv and to calmly put your very strong concern to the management. Include the details about your dd having already been scared of the admin lady, her reluctance to attend, her anxiety that day and that evening. Be sure about the exact words you heard and have them in writing, in front of you as watch. You will instinctively know for certain when watching, whether they are covering up or not. It is clear from your post that your dd needed a love and some gentle encouragement at that point, especially if she was in danger, rather than such cruelty. Discuss with absolute clarity as to what you heard, your feelings about it all, how totally unacceptable it is and how you simply can not let it drop. If you are minded to take it further, then escalate again to Ofsted and let them know that.
Find a new nursery that you like and tell them exactly what happened to your little girl at her previous setting (no need to mention names) so that they can take account of her trauma and help her settle again.
The complacency after such a long association with them is very hurtful but definitely needs to be called out for the sake of your family and for the sake of the other children there too.
Your reluctance to immediately walk in and ‘rescue’ your child was due to shock I’m sure. Perfectly understandable.

user1492716806 · 22/10/2020 13:10

@Lesserspottedmama

I’ve come to the conclusion a lot of people on here are ugly natured at not people I would want to know in person. Op you were in shock and therefore not thinking straight, don’t listen to all those awful comments decrying you for leaving. Don’t beat yourself up but use this experience as a learning point - you need to be tuned in and listening to your child. Don’t send her back to that place and I would be continuing the complaint to try and protect other children from being abused in the same way. Is there any way your DD can stay at home, sounds like she will need to emotionally heal and rebuild her trust. The amount of people trivialising and normalising what happened to her on this thread is disturbing. Imagine how terrified that child was. So traumatic for you OP and your daughter. I’m sorry, I’ve worked in a nursery years ago and that was reason enough to never send my child to one. Never witnessed anything like that though.
Thank you. I knew i was entering the lion's den posting here and can understand those who are 'beating me up' . My anxiety levels dont help at all. I should have confronted and taken her out - but my mind was struggling to compute what had just happened. It was so out of the blue, so unexpected and so savage...just the last place you would ever expect to hear such horrendous treatment... and then maybe of course, the chance that i could have heard it wrong....but I knew i heard what I did. And now there is the added issue of not being able to prove it.
OP posts:
Devlesko · 22/10/2020 13:13

Mine would have been out the minute I heard it tbh.
Poor child. Awful places, never heard a positive about them tbh.

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