Should I switch nurseries because of mouthy manager? Long sorry...

[Fatfrog]

This is the scenario: I went to pick up my ds 3.7 from his new nursery that he's attended two afternoons a week for 5 weeks. At the door and in front of ds she says ' You haven't given me the sessions you want for September he really needs to be coming everyday as we need to work on him since at the moment he doesn't speak the whole time he's here. Not to the staff and not to any of the other children.'

This was broadcast at me and all the other mums queuing into the street waiting to pick up their kids. Is that the normal method of discussing dcs?

Since then Ds doesn't want to go back and I have to virtually drag him there! After talking to him it turns out that he spends a lot of time on his own, when its playground time etc. Thing is the nursery has a strict policy of mums leaving their kids straight off as they 'settle better'. Well my little chicken obviously hasn't has he?

I'm thinking of changing in september to a nursery where I can go along and support, help him engage etc. at the start.
Does any one have a view on this? Am I over-protective (well I know I probably am - but want him to be happy and adjust well!) ? sorry so long.

Fatfrog - I have no direct experience with this but don't want to ignore your post. I think you should go with your instinct, move him somewhere else. You know your own child and if he's not happy after 5 weeks then maybe try something else.

Can I just say that the majority of children to tend to settle better in nursery once mum/dad has left. I had to support a parent not so long ago who couldn't bear to leave her ds and would stand where he could see her even though it was not in the main nursery room. Total nightmare. Once the parent was out of his sight, he settled within 10 minutes.

As for the manager not respecting your confidentiality, this is way out of order and needs to be addressed.

My point was that sometimes hanging around can make the settling time more traumatic for both you and your dc so I would really think carefully about wanting to go somewhere where you can be there to engage with him. You'll find it so much harder to finally let go and it will make it harder on your ds. I'm speaking not only as a nursery nurse, but also as a mother.

Hope this helps

Fatfrog, he is your child.
You know him best.
You need to make the decisions for him that you know are best for him.

A nursery manager who tells you that your child needs to attend every day so they "can work on him", and has the tact of a house brick, does not sound like an ideal carer.

Find a setting that suits your child, and that will work with you to ensure he settles in as happily as possible.

If that means you stay with him at first, so be it.

He's three years old.

It's your job to protect him as you see fit.

Id be tempted to change, not because your child hasnt yet settled (it does take time, and when asked children will focus on the negetive, especially if you give him a cuddle!) but for the lack of confidentiality. Thats one of the most emphasized part of childcare training, and its inexcusable.

Is it a state nursery or a private nursery? Remember private nurseries are private enterprises - they are there to make money. They are not charities. Reading your comment posted, I would interpret the manager's words and timing as "you are costing us money by not sending your child full-time but I'll masquerade this by using child developmental problems as an excuse to emotionally blackmail you into sending your son full-time."

I experienced something similar back in April. I let my child finish the term at that nursery and have enrolled her at another.

I do not and would not tolerate this sort of behaviour from anybody including a nursery manager - something which is increasingly common occurence. Yourself and myself are not the only ones who have been treated in such a manner. I believe the only way to deal with this is to allow your child to finish the term and then enroll your child at another better nursery. One in which they will allow you to settle your child, one in which your child should look forward to going to and enjoy. It is clear that your son does not enjoy his time at this nursery. Take him out of there is my advice.

Keep a tab on staff changes. The previous nursery my child attended was excellent until the staff changed. There was a new playgroup leader and assistant and the whole atmosphere changed. Last I heard, all but 2 children have been pulled out and the nursery owner reluctantly decided to close the nursery because it was not making enough money.

Your child's happiness is your top priority. My daughter had several taster sessions last term at the nursery she'll start in September and absolutely loved it - I got my bright eyed child back. The staff have worked at the nursery for over 8 years and have no intention of leaving. Yes, my daughter has unclear speech, but the staff at the nursery do not view this as a problem.

Agree with mumofhelen

Nursery manager sounds very sergeant major-ish.

He's been there five weeks and they're only now telling you he doesn't speak to anyone when he's there?

Most children are more likely to settle quickly when goodbyes are brief, but refusing to speak to staff or children isn't settling at all imo.

Yes, change nursery.

I think the manager is out of order etc for the way she spoke to you publically about your son and to say it in front of your son.

However staying with your son won't help him integrate he needs to learn to do this without you there however the pre-school should be working on this and should have experience of it - it is not uncommon!!!!

My dd was like this it took 4 terms before she would talk to all the staff and children (and she never initiated conversations) she had known some of the other children from being a tiny baby but she was too shy to talk to them at pre-school. However over the holidays before she went into reception I brainwashed her by saying that if she asks people to play and they say no that's okay you can ask them another day etc etc etc

She has absolutely blossomed at school, and volunteered to have a speaking part in the class assembly!

Immediate instinct is to remove him. I have taken my DD out of two places that weren't right for her.

In question to your op, yes I would remove him and find a pre-school that is going to deal with both him and you in a far better & more sensitive way!

Don't mean to hi-jack here, but I was reading this with interest.

I am trying to sort out a pre-school for my dd who is a shy 3. Whilst at a session with her in July the pre-school helper had to change several boys who had either pooh'd or weed their pants, (having so much fun outside). One boy who is just 3 pooh'd his pants twice. The helper then went on to broadcast to the other kids and me that she had to change "T" again because he had just pooh'd his pants again. Also, at the end of the session she forced a nappy on "T", as he was going home with her and often falls asleep and wets himself, however, T was screaming and crying and really distressed, he then refused to come into the room as he was embarassed and instead sat out in the cloakroom.

I know this sounds awful, but it is a highly respected pre-school with literally an outstanding Ofsted report.

What do you think?

Nursery manager was very rude, seems to have forgotten you pay her wages. Her attitude would worry me, tbh - what's she like with the children when you aren't there? She sets the tone for the place, if staff are led by someone who treats others with little respect, maybe they aren't treating the children with much respect, either.

(Helen, they may have impressed Ofsted, but that incident would put me right off. No-one who cares for children should humiliate them in that way. Maybe they got rid of nasty woman for the day.)

(McEdam - thanks, that's what I thought)

Cant believe a staff member would humiliate a 3yold like this! Anyone whos ever met a 3 year old will know they are old enough to be embarresed! Appalling behavior, Id be tempted to find out who 'T's mum/carer was and tell them. Its bullying! The parents cant know, how could they let him go home with someone this unproffesional!

I know Mightymoosh - I did justify it to myself as done because it was necessary and no other option, (no other private changing facilities, wouldn't want my car-seat wet in etc). But, in hindsight, I can see she could have at least waited until we had gone home. I have already booked her in for September so think I may see how it goes, whilst keeping a close eye. I just wondered if anybody here had direct experience of how this should have been dealt with, ie are there rules or guidelines on a child's right to privacy?

Ive never come across anything like that in my training- Ill have a look in me books! Id sooner have a couple of towels to put down than an upset child, it makes life harder if they are not on good terms with you. And telling the other children was unnecesary, 3 is too young to be shamed into using a toilet/potty!

I would 'eat my hat' if the helper behaved like this in front of an OFSTED inspector and wasn't struck off.

Fatfrog, this does not sound like the right place for your ds. Different children need different levels of attention and encouragement. A nursery that does not recognize this and that tries to discuss it publicly with you, does not sound like the place for your child. And there is no reason why a 3.7 year old boy has to speak/play with the other children. Some children are just naturally shy/reserved/quiet. It would have been more appropriate for the manager to discuss with you whether this was normal behavior for your son and whether you were concerned about it. I would immediately remove him and take him somewhere else.

Helennn, I think that the behavior you witnessed with the nursery lady and the child is absolutely awful and I woudn't put my child in that place for even a day. When I was first searching for a nursery for my ds, I visited one that was very well respected and had long lists to get in and I witnessed a very similar situation to the one you described. I was so appalled, I pretty much left there and then. There is absolutely no excuse for humiliating a child (publicly or otherwise) and certainly not about poo/pee accidents.

Thankyou everyone for your responses. The nursery has 'outstanding' written all over its ofsted report so I was very excited for him to go.

I did phone them the next day to discuss what we had been told and spoke to a lovely teacher who agreed to try encourage him (5 weeks in mind you!). She said she had noticed him on his own at outside playtime but assumed he preferred to be alone! I would never allow a 3 yr old (or a grownup for that matter!) to be left out of things.

I was happy initially to leave him to settle with them but think they should do as I would...play with him, make him laugh, engage him, intrduce him to the other kids.

Finding a new nursery for the new term. humph.

I've known of one "Good" nursery (OFSTED 2001) drop to "inadequate - notice to improve" by 2006 (OFSTED report 2006). These inspectors simply watch a snapshot of what happens at a nursery - and of course, most nurseries try to show their best on the day of inspection. I also know of a nursery judged as outstanding by OFSTED (2006) yet always has places available - for a very good reason known to all local mums - and it's nothing to do with cost; it's all to do with the staff.