'Early' potty training and nursery

[MeadowHay]

DD is 16m and hates (understatement of the century, it's really stressful for both of us!) having her nappy changed. She has recently started going into a corner to poo too.

I was never wedded to potty training early but I think if we can do it it will make all our lives so much less stressful. I don't think I would try before January as I can't take any time off work before the Xmas period and selfishly I don't want us stuck at home for that time unable to take her anywhere etc. I am currently reading the Oh Crap! book. DD is in nursery 3 days a week and will move rooms in February. Her current room don't have a toilet and when DH asked them very briefly about it awhile ago they recommended we wait until she has moved into the next room. I am thinking we would need to wait for her to settle so we would be looking at March which is still early for toilet training but feels like miles away now! The book is American but mentions nurseries requiring children to wear nappies while potty training, being against not wearing underwear etc. I think her method sounds logical. I could definitely have her off nursery for at least one week but more than that would be difficult and selfishly I do begrudge the huge sum of money wasted keeping her out longer when we are on such a low income.

Just looking for stories from nursery practitioners about how they feel about early potty training and what they usually do about nappies whilst training. And anyone on here if they have had their child toilet trained young whilst they went to nursery?

As PP said, stand her in the bath and hose her down. The frequent nappy rash is probably adding to the issue as wiping the area will hurt.

I would be very concerned that she's so frequently pooing without anyone noticing at nursery tbh. To me that seems like it could be the root of the problem.

Oh yeah I was expecting to have her at home with me and/or DH for the first week.

No she can't take her trousers up and down she would need help.

I agree that it wouldn't be seen as early in the past but things have deffo changed and I think part of the reason is due to more children being in childcare rather than at home with a parent all the time.

Re her nappy rash, she only usually gets it at nursery so we're pretty sure it's mainly due to not having her changed quick enough after a poo unfortunately. We have had strong words with them though and it's been a lot better since then and they are just using cotton wool and water to clean her now. Not sure on water temp but at home we have used warm water and it didn't make any difference unfortunately.

Timer don't think she would understand yet. We just gave her a wafer with her poo nappy change before and that worked excellently. My auntie said she used to give hers a Jaffa cake every time as it was the only thing to keep them quiet! Don't really want to go down food whilst laying on their back but might do it for pooey ones as I'm desperate! We have tried everything else in terms of toys, books, songs, dummy, etc nothing works at all.

I potty trained my daughter about 2.5 and it was easy enough. She literally didn't have a clue the first few times she wet herself but once she had a wee on the potty and we made a big song and dance about it she started to get the hang of it. In the very beginning I would put her on the potty very regularly (every 15 mins or so) and this time gradually got longer as she was getting more used to it and holding it herself. I don't agree with pull ups etc, they just confuse matters. I am now a childminder and usually expect parents to make a good go of it at home for a week or so (minimum of a long weekend) with some progress and then they come to me in pants and I can continue from there. Even now though, if a parent sends a child in pull ups I (unintentionally) find myself not taking the child often enough so I'd defo recommend knickers from the beginning at nursery when you decide to go for it. Ask to take a look at their potty training policy. Most nurseries will have one and see what they will accept. They may have conditions but really should go with parents wishes as much as possible

My experience was that there was no problem doing it as a gradual process. We don't expect toddlers to learn to speak in fluent sentences in a week or learn to walk in a week so it seems to me that the only reason that potty-training is seen as something different now is because it's more convenient for parents that way. As long as there's no pressure on the child I can't see why it would be confusing or disturbing this way. From what you say, your DD clearly does know she is pooing so if she is happy using a potty at home there shouldn't be any problem starting with this.

My DD never had accidents with poo at all - and only with wee when she was asleep and hadn't been taken to the loo first.

Does your DD have any kind of 'regular' time to poo? Or is it completely random?

Potty training should be child led. Nothing you have said suggests that your child is ready. Doing it because she hates having her nappy changed doesn’t mean she’s ready. You will likely end up in a situation where your cleaning up accidents for months to come.

With respect, signs of readiness is a very new concept. In the past and indeed in other cultures such a notion doesn't exist. If you can provide me with peer reviewed research supporting your view I'm totally interested to read it! But in the absence of that I'm not sure anyone can claim that one way is better than another really and of course all children are different.

Will deffo speak to nursery first and ask for their potty training policy. And then maybe try and just train her for poos. I'm not invested in her being toilet trained and was originally expecting not to bother until she was well 3. It's not like I'm in a rush to have her toilet trained just for the sake of it. I'm trying to navigate a way forward that will make her life less stressful. Tbh if that means me cleaning up accidents then that would be a lot preferable to the current situation anyway where she is so distressed. But anyway if we decide to give it a go sometime and clearly weren't making any progress after a week or so then of course I would shelve it, I'm not wedded to the idea. I think I already explained all this numerous times tbf.

But definitely poos are the main problem and perhaps I should just have a go with them first. I just worried that would be confusing only to try and train for poos.

We didn't set out aiming for poos only particularly, more DD quickly started waiting for the loo for them and obviously didn't like pooing in her nappy, so it just happened. A lot of pees were on the potty too but not quite all, particularly when she was in busy childcare environment. So she was basically there but pull-up as back up till she was older and more independent.

I found it a huge gain not having to deal with pooey nappies in the meantime, much more pleasant, and finally officially training at a bit over 2 was kind of a non event, we just noticed she hadn't peed in the pull-up for a few days and stopped using it. So for us the gradual approach to PT was much easier as well as finished sooner than doing it in one shot for DS at over 3 after two years of yucky toddler diarrhoea nappies.

The nice thing about the gradual approach is it doesn't have to be a big deal, just try offering a potty in home time and see if she takes to it. What you describe of your DD's awareness sounds like she may benefit from at least giving it a go.

Are all potties essentially the same btw? I genuinely don't even know where you buy one from...Boots?!

Boots, mothercare etc, unless you want something singing and dancing! Long time ago but Boots basic one was nice and small for a mini bum.

My DD started wanting to use the potty at about 20 months but it was more 'catching' poos and wees - I could do it as I was a childminder so with her all the time but she stayed in pull-ups.

Just after her second birthday we 'potty-trained' over a weekend. Obviously I couldn't just stay at home for a week as I had a lot of other children to think of, but after a couple of days being at home with no bottoms on she was fine in pants. She had 2-3 accidents a day for the first week.
We still use pull-ups if we're doing a long car journey or going to softplay though.

Although I would describe her as potty trained now (25 months) - she rarely has accidents, maybe every few days - I don't know if I would send her to childcare in pants as she doesn't communicate well yet.

I also potty trained my older children around 2-2.5 - I have never waited for signs and really didn't want to be changing nappies until they were 3 or 4!

Im not sure I would consider a child who has an accident every few days as being toilet trained though really? That's not what I'd consider to be 'rare' accidents iyswim. However I suppose it's just deciding whether you'd rather weather the accidents every few days or change nappies all the time! Personally I think like you I'd rather clean up some accidents than do nappies all the time for years.

I think we will try and start potty training her for poos asap just need to try and get nursery on board. And then maybe think about fully training her once she's settled in the next room at nursery around March so she will be like 21 months then anyway.

Do nursery allow you to take your own potty in?

2 and 3 year olds have accidents I'm afraid!

The distress you describe sounds more like fear that changes will be painful and not that shes ready to train. I'd be talking to nursery about the need to check her nappy more.
I've trained countless children over more than 25 years and nothing you describe sounds like shes ready. Yes you can teach her to wee on demand...like we salivate on smells like vinegar...but it dosent mean shes ready....which is why early trained children have so many accidents. If shes ready she can hold her wee for about an hour....test with tissue in nappy. She will have 1 or 2 reasonably predictable poohs a day....tell nursery when they are should avoid the nappy rash. Amongst other things.toilet training when they are ready takes 2 or 3 days to go to occasional distracted accidents.

I thought that about fear of pain too but then she hasn't really had nappy rash for a good few weeks now and her reactions are getting more extreme rather than less yes I could test with the tissue in nappy. Will definitely speak to nursery about it all and get their thoughts. She definitely knows about her pooing though before she does it as she gets up and goes to hide in a corner to do it. She tends to poo every morning within about an hour of waking and then usually once more in the day but it is sometimes more and the other poos seem to be at random times. I might keep a poo diary to see if there are any patterns. She did like 4 today but that's pretty unusual these days and she seemed a bit constipated today which she hasn't been for months and months so it's not typical of her. We have had strong words with nursery awhile ago re the nappy rash and it's been much better - non existent for the last month or so, so they definitely took it all on board thankfully.

A pain reminder from either constipation or nappy rash lasts months. If shes gond 4 times in a day that suggests either constipation ( you can get nuggets or runny overflow) upset tum (teething excess saliva, bug) or simply not ready.
Children typically hide to pooh it is the beginning of realising something is happening and earlier in constipated children ad it hurts, but being ready can be a long way off....work on pulling loose trousers up and down. Sit on potty at nappy and bath times or when going into hiding. Eliminate constipation as a factor.

I used Oh Crap and swear by it. My DC were 21 months and 2 years. Admittedly no formal childcare but DC did go to relatives when I work. I think you can do this. You’ll need to do the first days yourself and if you CAN take a week off I would do that. When you put her in underwear for nursery, though, you could put her in pull-ups or, better still, invest in some waterproof pants so that SHE sees they’re different but nursery won’t have to deal immediately with accidents. But in my experience, if she’s ready, she won’t really have many - I could count the ones mine have had on one hand, and that’s all the way through to fully-trainer. But just be prepared to back off and drop it if it’s not working —anyway, she goes through that in the book. Good luck!

All children are ready at different times. If your daughter is ready the nursery should be fully supportive.
My daughter wasn’t yet at nursery when we started potty training her, but we went to a weekly group at the one I wanted her to attend. They were so unsupportive and told me she was ridiculously young and that it wouldn’t work, that I changed my mind and took her elsewhere.
She potty trained at 18mths, it took 4 days for dry day and night. She was obviously ready. You as the mother will know best.

Two things:

1. Is tbs Oh Crap method basically “shut yourself in the house for a week and keep putting your kid on the loo at 15 minute intervals”?

1. IME my DD and presently my DS did much better with a seat minimiser like this:

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We just told nursery when we were training DD. She took a while to get there but I completely believe that I missed a window of opportunity and she almost “regressed” a tiny bit as she was READY at 2y2mo but we waited until 2.5.

DS is just turned 2 and I’m not joking when I say he LOVES sitting on the toilet.

I believe that much like love, when you know, you know. Just be absolutely cardinal with popping her on the toilet again and again. And let her run round with nappy off. A high risk strategy but it really worked for DD.

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It’s worth it, honestly,

DD pretty much toilet trained herself at around 19 months. She wouldn’t poo if out and about, would hold it til home.
Very few accidents right from the off. Almost never had a poo accident.

If you are worried about not having a word for toilet/ wee/ poo, teach her a sign. Just say whatever word you are going to use and sign simultaneously. She should soon pick it up, and the tell nursery to do the same.

I don't think it's too early. My DC were potty trained around 18months. Nowadays parents leave it later and I'm not sure why. I hated changing nappies when they started having actual poos and not baby poos.

Can't really remember ds, but with dd we stayed home for a few days and I put her on the potty regularly and praised her when she went. Actually I do remember ds, I had no money, no nappies and so we just got on with it.

We used oh crap too at 22mo, she recommends 18-30mo as a window. We'd have done 20mo but for her sister being due a couple of weeks after so didn't want her to regress. Nursery were fine but they didn't want her to not wear underwear so she did have an accident that first week because of that but otherwise very straightforward

Thanks it's so helpful to hear particularly from people who trained on the early side. Because when you mention it to people who trained later they immediately start shutting you down! Even if you're like me and just enquiring about whether it might be possible. Absolutely I would take at least a week off work and not have her in childcare that week and absolutely if she got upset at using the potty or if after a few days we weren't getting anywhere then definitely I would drop it and try again a few months later. I'm not some militant early potty trainer as if such a thing exists anyway haha.

DD hardly ever poos while we are out either actually. She did at playgroup a couple of weeks ago and I remember being really shocked because I had got used to never changing poo nappies out and about.

The constipation hasn't been an issue for a long time probably not since she was about 11 months tbf and same with the 4 poos in a day. Yesterday was not typical at all. She is teething so that might have upset things a bit. Gave her some prunes yesterday so hopefully that will help things along for today and go back to normal. She's with my DM today.

I like the toilet booster seat more than the idea of a potty however I don't think they would work for us initially if we train early ish. This is because our only bathroom is upstairs and also her room at nursery don't have a bathroom at all. But I'm also thinking that would mean they would only let her use a potty in the bathroom right? I mean it makes sense for hygiene. But I don't see how that would work as presumably she won't be able to wait long enough for someone to notice she's asking to go/about to go, leave the room with her, go into the next door room and go to the bathroom in it?!

Also to PP who asked about the Oh Crap method, it is about staying home initially but more about catching the DC when they're weeing/pooing and moving them to the potty over and over until they make an association rather than constantly putting them on it in the hopes that they'll eventually pee.

I did oh crap method at just before 2.
She never really had an accident after the first 2 days... (a couple of drips in her underwear whilst going to the toilet).
We went on holiday (3 hour drive) the next week and it was no problem.
I should have done it sooner as we also had nappy changing issues but I listened to the “wait til later” crowd, which was a mistake as she’d have managed to train at least 2 months earlier if I’d listened to her “no nappy” yells.
I’d wait til 18 months just for the communication side of things. Give it 2-3 days in stage 1 and be prepared to abandon if nothing clicks.
Don’t worry about nursery. If she has to wear pull ups there then she will manage as kids adapt to different rules in different places very quickly. If she trains easily and without problems then she will wear pants and they will have to manage that.