Always over ratios

[Newyorkcherrypie]

Hi, I’m just looking for advice really and thought here may be the best please. Apologies in advance if I ramble on.

I’m a nursery supervisor in a private day nursery and have been since last year. It is a nice place to work and I get on well with most of my colleagues, however there is one issue that seems to be getting worse and worse as time goes on, the ratios.

From what I know (having worked in two other nurseries in the last few years) the ratios are 1-3 in a baby unit which is where I am based most of the time, however we are always over ratio by one.
It is also the same in the nursery and pre-school room, they are always over ratios by at least one child.

When I questioned this at the staff meeting I was told that the nursery were allowed to do this as the staff on the desk (managers, assistant managers) and the kitchen staff were all counted in the ratios even though they aren’t actually based in the room nor help with the actual child care work, however I have never heard of this rule before? (Perhaps I’m wrong but I very much doubt OFSTED have recommended this).

Recently the problem has been getting worse. Yesterday I had 11 babies in my room with only three members off staff and with the ratios being 1-3 that would of made us over ratio by 3 children. Again today there were 12 babies in total with three members of staff, this morning 2 members of staff went out with 6 babies into the garden leaving me with 6 babies. My Assistant manager and manager both knew I had 6 children on my own however they continued to sit at their desk drinking coffee.

It also tends to happen at sleep times as the staff need to get their lunches, meaning that I am left on my with 12 babies, some of who are asleep. There has been a couple of times where they have all woken up at the same time whilst my colleague is on her lunch break. My manager is very unapproachable and can sometimes be quite snappy if I ask her to come in and help me whilst my colleague is on her lunch break, so now I just deal with it on my own (not that I should have to).

It is a big business with around 6 nurseries in total and I am aware that this goes on in the other nurseries too after hearing stories from other members of staff.
As I am aware they were in the papers a few years ago after a child broke their arm and after hearing quite a few stories about the incident I believe this may of been down to ratios as well so clearly they haven’t learnt their lesson.

The owners are very money driven and it seems at a risk of the children’s safety as well. I’m always scared something terrible will happen one day and I’ll be held responsible. The managers/owners have a way of shifting the blame onto us nursery nurses/bottom of the pile workers!

So after that huge paragraph, my question is would you ever report a nursery that you worked in?

Thank you

Yes as I couldn't live with myself if something happened, and every child deserves the best. Ring for advice if your not sure about regulations.

Please do report them one child has already been seriously hurt there, how long until it happens again? For your own peace of mind you know what you need to do.

I have read somewhere on here before that other staff on the premises can count towards ratios even if not in the room, however i would find it unacceptable and in fact did complain once at finding 11 under 2's with only two members of staff.

Can I ask if the chain is in Essex? (pm me if you don't want to say)

Oh maybe not essex, hadn't heard of the poor child with a broken arm.

Hi @Newyorkcherrypie

I reported a nursery I worked in years ago ..... OFSTED came out on an unannounced visit

You shouldn't be on your own with all them children even if it is sleep time

I have reported a nursery for being under ratio I worked in a baby room for about a year with one other staff with 11 or 12 babies each day and 2 of them were 3 months old

It's disgusting the owners were just money grabbing twats

Unfortunately this happens far too often

There used to be (not sure if its still there) something in the statutory guidance about enough staff being able to see or hear the children. Some places were reading this and the attitude was "Well i have cctv, i can see them from my office"

Its not good enough

I would report

I’m a nursery manager and I think you should report them to ofsted
Ratios do apply to the whole building so you could have say 7 babies with 2 members of staff if you had 5 two year olds with 2 members of staff
But from what you describe your nursery is seriously understaffed
Nobody should be on their own with children ever
Report them

Ofsted consider the total number of childcare staff across the whole building when assessing ratios, and so consider their qualifications. This won’t include kitchen staff if they are not qualified and employed as careers, it can include, say, office-based manager who is.

Ofsted would also take into account their own observations, as well as accident records, etc. in order to decide whether the supervision is adequate, even where they are within ratio 'on paper'.

Afaik there I shall nothing in the regulations to prevent a suitable member of staff being alone with one or more children. After all, this is perfectly normal in other childcare/education situations such as childminding, teaching or nannying. The "never left alone" Rules appears to be purely a matter of policy for each individual nursery.

As mentioned, this sort of situation seems to be happening more and more. Sad to say, it is likely to get worse as long as childcare fees continue to be depressed at relatively low levels whilst costs such as commercial rents, minimum wages, and employer’s pensions rise. Corners are being cut because quality childcare provision is rapidly becoming unsustainable.

I would definately report, surely you can do so confidentially? They needn't know it was you, it could have been a parent for all they know. At the end of the day it could be you who gets in trouble if anything happens and you were aware of the situation and done nothing about it, so it is in your best interest as well as the childrens.

I would also be looking for another job. Sounds an awful place for the children and staff.

I work at a pre-school and we always ensure we are well within our ratios, constantly counting children and adjusting where we need to be as they have free-flow to the garden. Something I should imagine is the norm in any good setting.

Have you been on a safe-guarding course recently? You would be reporting immediately if you had!