2 year funding mess

[Rachyroo11]

2 weeks ago I got my sons place at my daughters school where he would start when he is 3 years old he's been at nursery since he was 2. I notified the nursery when I got his forms through for the school. Next I am handed a invoice letter to £330 from September term start up until Friday last week. I discussed this with the school and said why am I being asked to pay for my sons 2 Yr funding when he has that entitlement up until his 3rd birthday. His start date for school is the 29th of this month he is 3 during half term so 2 year funding would have stopped on his last day of nursery in the 19th Oct so the school will claim for him in his place. I took him into nursery this morning to be told about the payment will be needed soon to which I told them I'm not paying it he's entitled to that up until his 3rd birthday and I sure do not have £330 in my back pocket me and my partner claim universal credit. They said if I wanted him to stay today it would be £22 for the session I said I have no choice now but to take him Home if you are going to be adding fees in top of this £330. I went back to the school to discuss this with them very upset and angry my son was crying as he wanted to go to nursery. I spoke to the school who rang them up and told them that I am entitled to this funding and that a place has been secured for when my son is 3 the nursery asked well our funding rolls over to 3 year funding here if she wanted to take her son out when he turned 3 she would have had to tell us at the beginning of Sept term and then she would have had to pay for the term and if not payable then he wouldn't be able to attend here he would have to wait till he was 3 and start the place with yourselves with 3 year funding, the school said we transfer the funding to ourselves so she shouldn't be paying for his attendance as he will ful fill his attendance for the 2 Yr funding with yourself until the 19th of this month as he turns 3 in the half term on the 22nd. Then we take over the funding they are basically saying if my son doesn't stay at the nursery I am liable to pay they asked me if I had this explained to me I said no not at all. The school told nursery if I could return back with my son and they said no on the phone and that I will have to wait until the manager comes in to discuss the payment. They said they where going to phone me in an hour to which they still haven't contacted me within that hour so I am going to phone them now and phone the school to see if they have contacted them as they failed to contact them last week when this was all raised someone please I need advice why should I have to pay for what my sin is lawfully entitled to I did not have this problem with my daughter when she started and the school have said they even haven't had this problem at all or encountered this situation before with children starting like this

They also said that if I keep him at the nursery until December he can start school in January but by then his place will have been lost because they fill up fast at my daughters school it's seems that they are robbing my son of his entitlement and want money I've never heard of a nursery to do this before and as said neither have the school had any situation arise before with funding issues and children starting etc

Do you have a contract or any funding guidance given by the nursery? It may be that they need a certain amount of notice before a child leaves a funded space. As it stands the nursery will have already claimed the funding for the full term and they will be liable to pay that back now so I can see where they’re coming from. Some nurseries work on full terms as opposed to half terms. I’m not quite sure why he has got the school place early as they won’t be able to claim the 3 year funding until the term after his bday (which would be jan). I would def advise you check any paperwork you have been given by nursery with regard to notice periods etc.

I really am not sure I don't understand it at all the school said they don't claim the funding until Jan for him but they accept them early to allow them to settle in the new environment. But last time my daughter started like this the funding was transferred and she started just fine she was at a different nursery to the one my sin attends now. Currently I have just rang the school now to see if they have been contacted by the manager of the nursery but they haven't been contacted yet so they ate currently in talks now to them then they will be Contacting myself. I assumed theta when my son turned 3 the 3 Yr funding would then start for him at the school when his 2 Yr funding finishes so assumed the school would then claim this for him I don't understand why they do it termly at all but I was not told this by the nursery so regardless of what I do now I have to pay the full amount of fees!! Which I am not happy at all about.

The only paper work I've been given is this letter invoice I've no copy's of a Contract!

Like I say though if you check a contract or any paperwork and there’s nothing there about notice period then they can’t make you pay it. Take a look.

Do u remember signing a contract though? They wouldn’t necessarily always give you a copy. Usual terms are a months notice but I do see why there may be a terms notice for funded spaces

I wouldn’t let the school call them though. It really has nothing to do with the school. They are doing everything right on their end and you need to be speaking to the nursery directly

The two year funding lasts until the end of December school term. That is the problem you are taking him out early. He may be 3 sooner but still on two year funding until term after third birthday.
The nursery are correct.

Will do they said to me if I carry on taking him the sessions will be charged regardless if I leave him In there til January but then wouldn't I have to give notice again. Because they would have already started claiming the 3 year funding for him at the nursery as they said it will roll in automatically so would I be liable to pay again then for the sessions taken up on the 3 yr funding with them selves because I will be taking him out to start at the u chosen school of the 3 ye funding starts on 3rd birthday in October then surely I would also have to pay back what they've claimed for him so far for the 3 yr funding because of its not transferabke then my son would have to stay with them then until he is 4 which I do not want it's like they've got a hold over me for my son to stay with them x

See why should the 2 Yr funding last until he's way past 3yrs old this is where it gets ridiculous and silly as the 3 Yr funding should start straight away for him they have told me it will start when he's 3 don't see why they have to do it like this because I think they just don't want to lose their funding my sin is entitled to and will fu ah the 2 Yr funding on the 28th October so why can't the school claim this then for him should be done to each individual child not everybody is minted to pay sky high nursery fees and yet still I'm being put in more financial hardship due to the fact I'm taking my son out to start a place In a PRE school where my daughter attends and as a low income family on universal credit think this is highly disgusting because I do not have the funds to cover this payment immediately. If u was earning 30k a year wouldn't have this problem because it would be paid for yet again the government put something into place yet if you want to take you child out earlier you get git with fees think they need to re think it and tailor it to Individuals not just on a termly basis x

No the 3y funding starts term after bday (so school won’t be claiming anything) so will be January.

Three year funding doesn’t start on birthday because it would be different times for every child. All the published info makes it clear this is how the funding is applied.
Children start reception the September after they turn four, not as soon as they turn four, It’s the same prinicipal.

I've looked at their terms and conditions and it states nothing for 2 Yr funding only 3 and 4 Yr funding their website hasn't even been updated since they started taking on 2 Yr funded places at the nursery x

3 year funding won't start until January if he's 3 in half term, and school may not be able to claim the 2 year funding (some can, some can't).

He's entitled to the 2 year funding until the end of the term he turns 3, so until 31st December (or whenever the term finishes), so he needs to stay in private nursery until Christmas as they will have claimed his 2 year place until then.

Private Nursery are allowed to ask for as much notice as they need for you to take him out so in this case it'll be a terms notice which is September to put him into school for January.

It's a bit confusing. I got confused at first until my DDs nursery explained it to me.

2 year old funding runs until the start of next term in January. The school is in the wrong to say put him in early or loose the space, Obviously they don't fill up quickly or they would be full now until next September when your child should start school nursery as it is he will be stuck in school nursery for 5 terms at the end of the school year in July he will see his friends move up while he waits for others to join him and they start this years curriculum again. Talk to your LA about how they deal with this situation mine would pay nursery for the current term as they honour notice periods.

I agree with Jannier. It should be 2 year old funding for this term. Speak to your local authority and your new setting and ask why the space for this term isn't being funded? It may be because you're joining after headcount day and the old setting will have claimed for this term. 3 year old funding will start in January.

I think as others have said, headcount day is the problem here. That’s the deadline for claiming funding (the 15 hours for 3+ and the 30 hours) and funding can’t be increased after that until the next term (eg parents who didn’t claim it all then suddenly wanted more sessions!)
Once that deadline is hit, the applications are submitted and the funding comes through for the next term. My old preschool had several funded 2 year olds and the issue was similar....everything starts afresh each term.
Your other daughter may have been able to move but there could have been a rule change - how old is your daughter? My knowledge generally comes from the last few years.
Basically your sons current nursery has the money and if you move they will suddenly loose it and can’t let anyone new claim until next term, hence why you now have the bill. Plus I believe you have to apply to have funding moved - this would be the new preschool in line with the current to the county. It might not be approved.

You don’t want to pay this bill and I get that. If you can avoid this by keeping him at the nursery for the term then moving him. Surely if you have a space you can say he won’t come until January for funding purposes? He will not have his 3 year old funding until then - could you ask to do some settles before Christmas?

We need to be a bit wary of transposing our local situations on the OP's case. Funding rules vary widely from one place to another. For instance, my county has a headcount every half term, and two deadlines applicable to each headcount........ yeah, figure that out!?!?

The most pertinent point to remember here is that, whilst the OP remains entitled to funded care, the nursery is absolutely not obliged to carry on offering it, and certainly does not have to offer it in the way the OP wants.

It’s quite reasonable (and not uncommon) for a nursery to refuse a funded place that isn’t going to be used for the entire term.

In any case, the nursery hasn’t created this problem: it’s down to the school insisting that the January place is conditional upon on an earlier than necessary start.

As for the existence or lack of a contract, the OP should check whatever it was she did sign on admitting the child to nursery. I’m going to assume neither she nor the nursery were so completely stupid as to handover/accept responsibility for a child without any sort of written agreement.

With or without a formal written contract, the Ts&Cs should be shown somewhere, even if they’re just published in a handbook welcome pack or on a website. Also check the local authority’s funding rules, which you should already have tbh. These may well say that the nursery can withdraw the funded place at the start of any term and revert to a charged-for place. Again, these are local rules, so there’s no point me or anyone trying to tell you what they will be with any degree of certainty.

Whatever terms/contract exist, they should indicate the notice period. This applies to any substantial changes in the arrangement (not just notice to terminate the arrangement). IOW that’s how much notice the nursery should give before they change from a funded to a non-funded offer.

If there is absolutely no contract or published terms of any kind (and god help you all if that really is the case) then you can at least walk away without giving notice, and only need pay for any services provided up to the point at which you leave.

Yes, itsaboojum you are right - I don’t know ops area so mine was a bit of an assumption based on my area knowledge. And I also reread and realise I may have sounded a bit blunt- sorry op!

Op I recommend you call your local council (the funding provider) and ask them. They will have the rules and regs for funding.