Nursery policy on 30 free hours - are we being cheated?

[theredchord]

My two children (just turned 3 and 1) attend an excellent local nursery. They attend term time only, as my wife is a teacher. They are also only in nursery for three days per week. My eldest is now entitled to potentially 30 free hours per week.

The nursery have advised us that we cannot receive “free” hours, as the government funding does not match their costs in terms of food, trips etc. So, our “free” hours are actually “reduced rate” hours. I am fine with this, as it is to be expected.

However, they have now told us that the entitlement is for full time children i.e. six “free” hours per day. As my eldest attends three days per week, this means we only receive 18 hours per week. I’ve challenged them on this but they have stated it’s their decision to carve up the hours this way and there is nothing to stop other providers making their own similar rules.

Now today they have also told us that, because the funding only covers 38 weeks per year, the entitlement will not be available until the end of September. I’ve also challenged them on this, stating that we are already on a term time only arrangement (39 weeks per year), so I expect the hours to be available when they are in nursery!

Does anyone else have any experience of such matters? Given that childcare is by far our biggest outlay I am determined to get my money’s worth!

Thanks

Is it a private nursery or a council run one? I think that makes a difference to how the hours are allocated iirc.

It's upto them how they allocate hours so you have to suck it up, plus you should get proportionally rata'd hours if she's in 3days per week.

We paid extra for meals, trips and admin charges as the free hours do not cover the full cost of running a nursery. Not the nurserys issue, it's a council / funding issue - that's where your complaint should lie.

I think if it’s a private nursery they can choose how to do it. We are very fortunate that our nursery allow us to use the hours as we wish-so spread over the whole year, meaning our part time use leaves us only a few hrs per week to pay for (plus top ups for food and equipment). I’m amazed any nursery manages to do this tbh, the funding is so poor.

It may be worth investigating what other nurseries locally do so you know your options.

Yes this is the norm even back when it was 15hr we could only claim for 12 when dd1 was in 20hr over 2 day. They have to do this as otherwise the money they get from the council doesnt cover the real cost. Just be glad you only use it term time, the bigger bills over summer used to hurt!

Thanks all. It’s a private nursery.

To be honest the pro-rata aspect doesn’t bother me too much, because it still represents a decent saving.

It’s more the way they seem to be suggesting that there is some other regime that determines when is term time and when isn’t! Our children are not entitled to attend over Christmas, Easter or during the summer, and all three half terms are also excluded, so how can they tell us the entitlement isn’t available in September?

Cheated by the government's (vote seeking) headlines of 30 free hours I would say.

I can't comment on the legality but I would (and did) vote with my feet. My nursery tried extra charging for meals and throughout holidays when I was term time. I phoned around a few local nurseries and found one that was better Ofsted rated that applied the 30 hours how it should be applied. They do exist, don't put up with it.

Cheated by the government's (vote seeking) headlines of 30 free hours I would say.

It may be different for the 30 hours, but the 15 hours funding is available from the term AFTER a child turns 3, so starting in September sounds right. I have an April-born DD and her funding starts this coming month.

Our nursery offer the free hours as 3 hours per session (a session is 5 hours). DD attends full time ie 10 sessions, and 5 of those sessions have 3 free hours in each. We pay for the remainder. If she only attended two days (4 sessions) then she would only get 12 free hours, not the full 15. It's pretty common, and they can offer it however they want

I’m a teacher who used to work 3 days a week - mine got the thirty hours spred over the 3 days so his childcare was literally free for me. This is a private nursery.

and yes, it’s only 38 weeks. I just paid nursery the going rate for 1 week.

Our nursery did offer the 30hrs over 3 days and just charged for meals but I think they are changing it now to 22hrs stretched over 51 weeks which will be great for a lot of parents although I'm term time only so would have suited me to stay as before!

Ours also took some weeks off at the end of terms to make up for the fact that our L.A. only paid them for 35 weeks not 38. So this year my DD finished on 11th July instead of 25th which was official end of term which would have been ok if manager hadn't only told us this on the 10th

Yes we had this, so basically it was only children in 5 days per week who received the full 30 hours per week funding. Our nursery operated it so the funding covered school hours and then if you dropped off earlier or picked up later than those hours you would be charged under their wrap around care so breakfast and after school club. Both of which were considerably less value for money than paying for a full day so the savings weren't that great despite having a chunk paid for by government.

The six hours a day sounds fine. Just get confirmation of their term dates for the next year.

You can also choose to split the funding between providers.
Providers are allowed to say what hours are available for funding but are not allowed to insist of top up fees, they can ask for voluntary contributions and charge for extras like food, craft supplies, music lessons, but it cant be compulsory. As most are making a loss on funding hours this is the only way they can keep open.

The are only allowed to claim for the hours that you use leaving you free to find an alternative provider for other hours, you will also find many other excellent settings that will offer the hours you want including nurseries and childminders who all work to the same standards and are inspected by te same Ofsted inspectors.

We listened to the childcare needs of the parents in my setting. We began the pilot by limiting when the 30 free hours could be taken between 9 and 3 but as of last sept we allowed stretched funding from 8 til half 5 and also over the school holidays.

We are in a school though and paid by local authority. The 30 "free" hours undercuts fees and put a lot of nurseries in jeopardy because what a setting gets per hour is WAY under what the usual charge per hour would be

Yes, silly as here.

m.facebook.com/groups/ChampagneNurseries/

The scheme entitles you to up to 30 hours per week, within the statutory rules as amended by the local authority, and within the individual nursery's "funded childcare offer". That offer describes how the nursery delivers the hours,and will have been approved by the LA.

I need many areas, including my own, the LA dictates which 38 calendar weeks will be treated as 'funded weeks'. Yes, that's 38 weeks, not 39 weeks, irrespective of whatever schools happen to be doing.

Alternatively, nurseries can use a delivery model called the 'stretched offer'. This averages the funded hours over the whole year, coming to c22 hours per week. This is generally better for parents who don’t enjoy the luxury of long holidays and therefore require all-year-round childcare.

Nurseries can choose the daily times at which they offer this funded childcare/education package. This does not have to coincide with parents' working hours, in just the same way as other care/education institutions such as schools and colleges set their hours without reference to parents.

THe nursery is required to offer the funded hours completely free of charge. They can offer 'additional services' such as extra hours, meals, outings, special classes, etc. for an extra charge. They must not make the use of 'additional services' a condition of delivering the funded hours.

That's just the rules, pure and simple. And as PippaPenny has already intimated, there is a whole debate about how unsustainable the scheme is; the methods being used in an effort to try to help parents; and the long term damage and destruction of the childcare industry that may well ensue.

Personally, I’d say the OP is not being "cheated" and is doing pretty well from the arrangement. Term time only contracts are far from common. Most parents pay for twelve months of childcare, and this particular nursery is losing out on 25% of the earning power of this place. It would be perfectly reasonable if they charged a retainer fee for the school holidays: most do, and some charge full whack.

Also, you’re gaining (not losing) from the 38 week delivery model. If the nursery went with the 'stretched offer' model, they'd be offering just 22 hours per week which equates to less than 4.5 hours per day.