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Nurseries

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Original poster

Ratios at nurseries - Am I right in thinking ....

18 replies

WriggleJiggle · 02/05/2007 17:26

That for the baby room (i.e. under 2's there should be a ratio of 1 to 3?

Had a bit of a problem at nursery drop off today - I ended up staying for 20 minutes and feeding dd her breakfast because there was only 1 adult in the room with 7 babies (incl dd). I am right in thinking this is definately not on aren't I? Aparently the other member of staff was 'in the building', but wasn't in the room, so how does this work with ratios.

I think if I complain about it they will claim someone was doing a nappy change or something, so how do ratios work in that instance when an adult has to leave the room with a child?

Arrrghhh! We only changed from a cm to a nursery because the cm had so many children to look after!

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ruddynorah · 02/05/2007 17:29

they can only leave momentarily. ie not for 20 minutes, and not all of them leaving one adult.

i would speak to the manager about your concerns. and i would do spot checks myself. i do that on and off so i'm satisfied with what happens at dd's nursery.

NotQuiteCockney · 02/05/2007 17:29

The ratio for under 2s is indeed 1:3.

I'm not quite sure how the 'person out of room' thing works, though, tbh. I mean, at the co-op, we're mostly working to 1:4 at most. But people do go out of the room to go to the loo, make a cup of tea, whatever.

But 1 adult for 7 babies, means they're missing two members of staff, to make up ratios.

Nurseries do sometimes get caught out, I remember DS1's old nursery once asking me to hang about for five minutes because someone had called in sick, so they didn't really want me to leave DS1 until the replacement had arrived ...

littlerach · 02/05/2007 17:30

Think you are riht to be concerned.
Even if they were changing a nappy they should be in the room, or have someone else come in, surely?
And you shouldn't have to feed breakfast if they are expecting your dd in to have breakfast.

ruddynorah · 02/05/2007 17:32

the nappy changing thing is very odd imo. at dd's nursery the changing cubicle is within the room and has a glass window so you can see the person changing the baby. this is for child protection reasons. when the member of staff is in that cubicle they are still counted as being part of the 1 to 3 ratio.

Original poster

WriggleJiggle · 02/05/2007 17:35

Mmmmm, I know they have had staffing issues, but that's not my problem, or it shouldn't be, is how I see it. Particularly as I've just paid their bill of £1400 .

Will see what it is like tomorrow morning. If there appears to be not enough people there then I guess I'll ask the manager about it, and failing any joy there bring dd home, miss a day of work and then get really upset with nursery head office.

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NotQuiteCockney · 02/05/2007 17:36

Oh, staffing problems absolutely not your problem. DS1's nursery were very apologetic, and I really did only have to stay 5 minutes that time. (And they explained to me what was going on. And it was only once. The ratios were always fine, otherwise.)

nurseryvoice · 02/05/2007 17:40

no thats not acceptable.
If a staff member leaves the room then they should have arranged someone to cover them, even if only to go to the toilet.
Thats what we do at our nursery.
I agree you should have a word with the nursery manager, she might not even realise the staff are doing that.....

ruddynorah · 02/05/2007 17:41

they should have contingencies too you know. at our nursery there are 3 supply staff plus 2 lunch cover staff. ask the manager what their contingency plan is.

Original poster

WriggleJiggle · 02/05/2007 17:46

Thats a good idea RN, thanks. Typically I was going to gently question in today as I had already arranged a meeting with them at lunchtime (the meeting they asked me to have 2 weeks ago when dd started), but when I turned up I was told the person was on a lunch break. Grrrr. I would have thought they were desperate to have me in as I deliberately didn't sign all the forms I was supposed to when she started. Hasn't been queeried so far. Am starting to wonder if they ever checked them.

OP posts:

IlanaK · 02/05/2007 18:06

Actually, ratios need to be maintained at ALL times. Popping out to the loo is not a reason for under staffing. Good practise would be for a spare staff member (usually the manager) to step in to cover.

Babies and toddlers do not wait until a room is fully staffed to have an accident or for an emergency to happen. That is what the ratios are there for.

mumeeee · 03/05/2007 10:09

The ratio for under 2's is 1:3.
It is alright if a member of staff has to leave the room for a moment in an emergancy but it is not all right to be under ratio for twenty minutes and alao there shoulfd only be one member of staff meeting. For 7 babies they should have 3 members of staff.

LEMONADEGIRL · 07/05/2007 21:24

what about then in an open plan room with a corned off section with approx 7 babies under two and one trainee student looking after,( in cornered off section), one woman in same room cleaning tables and one changing bums in a nappy room which is a small room leading off from open plan room - because that is what I saw on collection of ds on Fri lunch time?

Nickynappy · 10/05/2007 16:06

Some nurseries have problems keeping staff. Is this nursery part of a larger chain or a smaller independent?

LEMONADEGIRL · 11/05/2007 14:28

a smaller independant, it is run on the local college site. Its head office though is inanother part of country?

nannynick · 13/05/2007 21:36

I would like to see the National Standards rewritten to make it clear as to what is expected.

When I was in nurser I interpreted the 'rules' as being:

2 member of staff minimum per room.
Ratios had to be at least at the minimum stated (so 1:3 for babies)
That any member of staff not directly involved in the care of children is not included in ratio.

My view is that if a member of staff can not see and hear a child, then that child is not being cared for by that member of staff.

When I temped in a particular nursery I was shocked by how they had interpreted the 'rules'. Ratios were not being stuck to. I called a team leader at Ofsted (who I had worked with previously) and asked directly what she thought. She did not agree with me that staff outside the room do not count in ratio.

I feel its wrong... I would like the rules changed, so that only staff in the room count in ratio. Roll on the next update to the National Standards.

LEMONADEGIRL · 14/05/2007 13:27

thanks for your comments nn - I decided to give the nursery a 6 week trial and so far they are not impressing me.

nurseryvoice · 14/05/2007 15:53

my ofsted inspector said staff outside the rooms do not count in the ratios, that is also how I interpreted it.
We operate with 2 extra staff 1 being me the manager and the other is a nursery assistant. So even if there is someone off sick then we are ok.

nannynick · 14/05/2007 19:18

Glad someone feels the same as me regarding how the ratios should be calculated. Nice to hear an inspector also feels the same way. Just need Ofsted main policy to change - as certainly in 2004, I was not happy with the response I got from a senior inspection team manager.

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