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Nurseries

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Original poster

30 hours found not granted during BH and school closure

25 replies

Yscavuzzo80 · 12/12/2017 21:36

Hello all,
I've a question regarding the 30 hours free funding. Our child goes to nursery school full time, and this works out around 22 hours per week (51 weeks in total - nursery is closed during xmas)
School allocates the free hours on Mondays and Tuesdays, then we pay some hours on Wednesdays and full price on Thursdays and Fridays. As most of BH are on Mondays I've asked nursery school how are they going to work this out - same as school closures: because of the snow on Monday, school was closed. As this was a "free" day, we are not going to get any refund. However, if school closure would have been on a Thursday, we would have had a refund. Same if the BH would be on a Thursday or Friday, in that case we would not be charged the full daily amount.
I've enquired this yesterday and got below reply:

Unfortunately we can not give you an extra funded day to account for the Bank Holidays or the closures as the sessions are funded through Warwickshire County Council and I have clarified this with county today and they have said that the time is funded as in schools and so children won't be offered extra days, just as schools don't offer extra days.

Do you understand the above? I was always on the impression that, no matter if there are BH or school closures during a week, we are still entitled to 22 free hours per week? Have any of you experienced something similar? It seems I'm the only mum in the nursery school that have challenged this?

Thanks for your feedback!

OP posts:

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MyDcAreMarvel · 12/12/2017 21:41

No you don't get hours when the nursery is closed. The policy is the norm.

ijustwannadance · 12/12/2017 21:47

It's normal. Staff still need to be payed etc.
You're lucky you get 51 weeks. Most free hours here are only for term time. We had to pay extra during half terms and school holidays.

insancerre · 13/12/2017 06:45

It's normal
The 30 hours is having a detrimental affect on nurseries and many are having to close because the money received doesn't cover the costs of the place

LavenderDoll · 13/12/2017 06:51

It's normal

Ecureuil · 13/12/2017 06:55

Yes it’s normal.

insancerre · 13/12/2017 07:24

Also, I'm surprised the nursery gives refunds for bank holidays and days closed, most don't

Original poster

Yscavuzzo80 · 13/12/2017 09:19

When we have a BH or a school closure my child is not getting the 22 hours free funding because nursery opts to allocate the free hours on Mondays and Tuesdays? Does this really make sense?

OP posts:

Justabadwife · 13/12/2017 09:25

It seems perfectly normal to me.
I dont understand what you want?
Dds school is closed (obviously) on a bank holiday, I dont ask them to open on a Saturday to compensate for lost learning hours.

IvorBiggun · 13/12/2017 09:30

Is there an option to have the 30 hours a week term time only? You would lose fewer bank holidays then.

Snow days and unexpected closures you have to take on the chin but if their calculation policy means you don’t get the funding your child is entitled to then that’s not ok.

IvorBiggun · 13/12/2017 09:31

Also, I think you need to look at this annually to see if your child is getting all her free hours.

mindutopia · 13/12/2017 09:33

The funded hours should be spread out across the week. So they aren't 'only Mondays and Tuesdays' (there aren't 30 hours in the business day on a Monday and Tuesday). They are accounted for the week. So if your dc is in nursery 40 hours in any given week, you should still get 30 hours funded, but you don't get an extra day because one of those days fell on a bank holiday. But equally, the nursery doesn't get to choose to only offer them on certain days and not others (so like if your dc was only in on Thursday and Friday, you would get no funded hours? it doesn't work like that).

But usually you pay for closure days (so bank holidays) according to the terms laid out in your contract. At my dd's nursery, bank holidays (not the Christmas break) were charged at 50% the usual rate. You sort of each share the cost of the closure, as the nursery still has to pay staff, so there is still a charge for those days, but it's not the full charge. So if you get 30 funded hours and your dc is there for 30 hours a week, you still pay for no additional hours, but you don't get an extra day because one of those days was a bank holiday. This is the same if you were paying privately. You still pay according to the contract for the closure day and you don't get to substitute another day. That's the norm everywhere I think.

But I think for me what sounds fishy is the allocation of hours only to certain days. If you have 30 funded hours, at 8 hours a day, that means 3 full 8 hour days free per week plus an extra 6 hours on the 4th day. I don't think the nursery can choose which days you're allowed to use your hours for, if you see what I'm saying. It's just that if you are there 40 hours, you only pay for 10. They couldn't withhold funded hours if your dc was only there 3 days a week Wednesday to Friday.

MyDcAreMarvel · 13/12/2017 09:43

Mind the op is on a stretched offer, so 22 hours over the full year rather than 30 over term time. It's perfectly possible the nursery is open 10.5 hours on Monday and Tuesday.

HSMMaCM · 13/12/2017 09:53

Nurseries are allowed to specify when the hours are. They do not have to be spread across the week.

insancerre · 13/12/2017 11:21

Mindutopia
The nursery does get to choose which days they offer as funded and that's exactly how it works
The 30 hours is being spread over the year so that's 2 full days all year round
The nurseryvcan can choose which days and even which hours are funded within those days
Most nurseries charge for bank holidays anyway so it's no different with the funding

insancerre · 13/12/2017 11:22

Oh and it's not free
It's funded by the nursery as they can't charge top ups

CocaColaTruck · 13/12/2017 11:37

Perfectly normal - just the luck of the draw.

Twofishfingers · 18/12/2017 13:42

Just a question - do you think the staff shouldn't get paid because of an unforeseen closure? The bills? rent? Electricity? no. It's a service that you are extremely lucky to have and that is severely underfunded - leaving many nurseries to have to cut staff, recruit 'apprentices' and pay them £3.50 an hour, hire '0-hour contract' staff, or the nursery closes down completely.

There are loads of articles in the press about it. The funding is received by the nurseries from local governments, and it's the local government that usually makes up these rules, not the nurseries individually.

If you do a quick google search you will find many interesting articles about how much of a negative impact this 'free' 30 hours of childcare is having on the childcare and early years sector.

www.parenta.com/2017/07/31/30-hour-offer-is-already-leading-to-nursery-closures-warns-sector/

PersianCatLady · 18/12/2017 13:49

Let me get this right.

Your child gets 22 hours of free nursery time, 52 weeks a year and you want a refund for bank holidays and unforeseen snow closures??

Twofishfingers · 18/12/2017 13:52

Yes OP wants a refund for something she gets for free. That's a new one on me...

jannier · 19/12/2017 09:21

At an hourly rate of £5 the typical cost to a full time place of all bank holiday is around £2.80 a week. Take off those not falling on Monday an the ones in Christmas week about 4 this year the Op is moaning about around £1.50 a week pathetic.......go back to the times where the only free childcare was once a child started full time school because all childcare had to be paid for even if child was in school nursery and children didn't go full time until they were 5 and get a life. I'm guessing the next thing will be we should be paid to send our children

hibbledibble · 02/01/2018 07:47

Yes, this is 'allowed'. It is in fact standard policy.

Tanith · 18/01/2018 09:02

You are not getting the subsidised hours on nursery closure days.

The rules are quite clear: settings have to tell the council when they are closed and the payments, including stretched, are calculated with the closures taken into account.

They will only fund for up to 30 hours in term time, but they will stretch those hours across school holidays for settings that are open then - but they will not include bank holidays and setting holidays.

missjaysays · 19/01/2018 22:41

🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

lougle · 19/01/2018 23:20

I must admit, it was several years ago now, but when my girls were younger, if there was a closure on one of their free 15 hour sessions, either BH or snow, etc., we were always given a replacement session to cover it.

paulthepython · 16/05/2022 16:01

So, this is a really old article but it's come up while I was searching so I thought id comment. I've no idea why so many people are siding with nursery on this when they have blatantly allocated the funded hours purposefully to a day when you will have multiple bank holiday closures. This is clear discrimination against funded places and impacts on the poorest parents and is abysmal practice. The op states that paid places would be not charged on these dates and I just think that's really bad. Look at it this way, if op approaches and says I would like to use my 30 hours of funding but only need Tuesday Wednesday and then some Thursday I'm sure they wouldn't be saying sorry we only accept funding monday-wednesdsy. That's rediculous. I'd be getting my booking down as those days and then saying I'm happy to pay for additional days and want them Monday, Thursday and friday! It's the same booking, but without op constantly losing out. I'm actually searching because of the up coming Thursday Friday bank holidays. We are self employed so working them both but with no nursery placement (ours is shut) and they are still taking our funded hours. I really think the system does a poor job of supporting people when it comes to some logistics such as these. But I am grateful for the funding (even if it comes with a million caveats and loads of extra charges in our placement!)

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