30 hours entitlement help!!

[DaisyDeee]

Hi, I really hope someone can help me with this query because I can't find an answer anywhere!

We have registered for the 30 hours free funding and have received our eligibility code and passed it on to the nursery. They are offering the 30 hours and will also allow us to stretch it across 50 weeks. This is where the confusion comes in. My little one attends 2 days a week for a total of 16 hours. The guidance online says that we are eligible for 30 hours per week - multiplied by 38 weeks this is 1140 hours per year, which can also be 'stretched' as our nursery is offering. So I had worked out that 1140 hours divided by 50 weeks is 22.8 hours per week. My daughter attends for 16 hours per week so her place would be free.

However, the nursery has said that I have to calculate it not based on 30 hour eligibility, but on how many hours she actually attends. So their calculation goes like this: 16 hours x 38 weeks = 608 hours per year. 608 divided by 50 weeks = 12 hours per week. As my daughter attends for 16 hours, we then have to pay for the additional 4 hours per week. Is this right?? I just can't get my head around this logic and can't seem to find a definitive answer - I called the government helpline and they said the nursery are wrong but that I have to speak to our local authority, but I've left messages with them and not had a response and I have to confirm with the nursery ASAP.

I've found other nurseries online who are offering stretched options for people to do 22.5 hours per week for free so I can't understand why my daughter's place isn't free when she attends less than 22.5 hours.

I know the massive issues that there are with this funding programme for nurseries and also know that 4 hours a week isn't a lot to have to pay but it's more the fact that I just can't get my head around it and I'm not certain the nursery is right (they have previously incorrectly calculated our fees quite significantly). Happy to be proved wrong, I just need a definitive answer so I can move on in life!

Can anyone please advise? I would be so grateful! Thank you :)

And why are YOU so sure that I'm wrong? I have acknowledged that different LEAs are seemingly interpreting the rules differently, and that this is such an example, but you have made no such concession.

The OPs nursery may not be wrong either, if they are following the funding agreement they have signed with the LEA.

How many times do I have to say, that clearly we work in different areas where we have been told different things about how to claim.

I would still like you to please explain why a child attending universal hours of 15 a week term time, gets that stretched to 11.4 funded hours a week over 50. And yet someone else attending 16 - just one hour more - suddenly gets the full 16 over 50 weeks?

The long and short of it, is that neither of us can say with any degree of certainty what the OPs LEA have written in their funding agreement / guidance. We can only express what happens in OUR areas and if the OP wants a definitive answer, she needs to get hold of someone at the funding office where she lives.

Another 'great' examples of the differences, is where some LEAs are expecting funding to be repaid back to them when a parent goes on holiday and that the setting needs to invoice the parent for that time. Or where if the child is not enrolled on headcount day, they're not providing funding at all for that child. Even if they join a few days later. The whole thing is a complete joke to be honest. They're absolutely shouldn't be such differences across neighboring counties, but there is.

I think it's because the person claiming 16 hours is clearly entitled to the 30 hours, otherwise they could only claim 15 hours.

The main thing for me is that the government helpline have said that the OPs nursery is wrong.

A clear example of how stretched funding works is on page 34 of the DfE July 2017 Operational Guidance.
Extended Entitlement stretched over 51 weeks - ABC Day Nursery – Telford
ABC Day Nursery Ltd is a small chain of four nurseries based in Telford offering a
stretched model of 22.3 hours over 51 weeks, Monday – Friday, which can be taken
between 7.30am and 6pm.
The nursery looked at children currently taking the 15 hours universal entitlement who
were also paying for additional hours, and consulted with parents to develop a stretched
offer.
This stretched model allows working parents to take up their free provision across the full
year, whilst providers can also charge parents for additional hours each week to enable
parents to work full time.
Working parents wanting 30 hours childcare a week are able to access their entitlement
over 3 x 10 hour days, 22.3 hours of which are funded and 7.7 hours which are paid for
each week over 51 weeks, making school holidays affordable and accessible. Parents
are happy to pay for additional hours per week, as the ability to stretch places less strain
on family finances, and allows their child to access continuous provision in a high-quality settings.

@DaisyDeee I’ve not read all comments but the glaringly obvious error your nursery is making is with their calculations. They say you base it on what hours your daughter is attending = 16 x38 weeks. But if you’re stretching the funding she’s attending 16 x50 or 51 weeks.
They need to rethink their maths.
If you’re eligible for 30 hours and your daughter attends 16 hours all year round the provider can claim all of that. The maximum for stretching is 22 hours a week.
I hope you’ve been able to speak to your LA to get this sorted.

My la have told me I can stretch the funding in whichever way I want. So 30 hours a week for 38 weeks or 23 hours over 48 weeks, whatever I want.so, in my area, they could do the funding how you want to calculate it.
But, the scheme is massively underfunded, so they might have decided to only offer the hours term time only and be wanting (needing) to charge you extra for some hours, (the holidays) to recover some of their losses.

Hi all, I will be moving to N13 Tottenhal Road very soon and I have 20 mnhs old boy which I am going to need nurserie for.

Any recommendations? Will be attending full week.

Thank you.

Hi All,

I have a similar issue with the nursery hours, that is confusing matters. My daughter is entitled to 30 hrs and these are being stretched over 52 weeks, although she will only attend 38 weeks as she will be starting school in September.
Not sure why can't we just use our entitlement over the period she will actually be attending? 🙄