15/30 hours funding fee changes

[GetYourAssToMars]

DC attends 30 hours a week (3 full days) as I am a student. We are therefore not eligible for the additional funding and currently benefit from the 15 hours universal free hours which is taken as 11 hours per week year round (they are closed over Christmas and bank holidays)

We just got a letter advising of their new fee increase so they can afford to offer the full 30 hours (22 hours weekly year round)to those who qualify. Our bill will increase by £150 monthly even though we don't benefit from additional free hours.

They are raising their hourly rate by £2, applicable to all hours booked for those 3+ year olds in receipt of any funding whether that be 15 hours or the full 30 hour entitlement.

What do you think of this? I don't mind paying a bit extra even if I don't benefit personally, but surely this is taking the piss? We already have one less income coming in due to me being a student...I am going to have to reduce hours accordingly.

Watch the video
champagnenurseries.co.uk/
It's not taking the puss
It's survival

I'm a childminder and I've got a choice of cutting the classes and activities I offer or putting up my prices. I can't afford to receive 80p per hour less than my hourly rate.

Look I understand why they need to increase the fees - they don't get enough money for the free places. That much is understood. I just don't agree with the way they have gone about it. There are other options which are fairer to all parents.

I can't afford to pay £150 extra to fund someone else's free hours. They are basically increasing my fees personally, to fund another child or two, not my child, who is not eligible (because I am a student, not because I'm a SAHM or earning over the limit).

Surely you don't think that is fair?

So fees have to go up across the board so nurseries can stay as viable businesses
Nothing about the 30 hours is fair
It's a shambles

They are not going up across the board at my nursery - if they were, I would not complaining.

Of course it's not fair but not is the rate offered to providers. And you've already subsidised the 15 hours if your child attended nursery before the age of 3.

But providers now have to pay for extra training, the requirements of which will change in 5 minutes, increase in minimum wage, pensions and now the 30 hours. Either parents subsidise it or they go out of business.

We can get the 30 free hours, but have rejected it as my son's nursery have asked for "activities fee" and meal costs.

15 free hours costs me nothing, 30 free hours costs £27 a week.

I know it's not much in hindsight, but with my daughter being 1 and having to pay for her childcare we could do without this cost.

What other options? They're quite restricted in what they can do to recoup the gap in finances.

Our nursery explained to us that the actual cost per child with no profit is XX, and government is paying them X.

I can't remember figures now, but I'm sure they said government is only giving them £8 a day (don't quote me)

Do you claim childcare support from Student Finance England?

One of the problems is local authorities set the rate given to providers. Ours pay 45p per hour more than the neighbouring authority. So 2 providers 5 minutes apart are receiving different rates and some parents are subsidising more.

I think the 30 free hours parents should make up the shortfall for their child only. Our nursery is not offering the 30 hours, I'd rather they did and I would make up the difference, it would save us a lot of money.

I've always thought that the govt should have given free childcare vouchers instead of paying direct to nurseries. If that meant that you could only get, say, 22 hours free the at least that's something and other parents wouldn't be footing the bill.

But the parents of the under 3's subside your 15 hours.

I think the problem might be that the nurseries are not allowed to ask parents to 'top up' the government rate for the 30 hours or to contribute. That's why they have to increase the rate for the people not getting the free hours or sounds like others are getting round it by asking for 'activities fee' or whatever.
I can see it's really galling for you to have to pay more because of others getting totally free hours but I think the nursery's hands are tied.

I wonder if the nursery realise that they don't have to offer the 30 hours, they could stick to just offering the 15.

But the parents of the under 3's subside your 15 hours

As I subsidised others' 15 hours when mine were in from age 18 months...nor did I resent it - but it didn't amount to £150 - £170 extra each month, and everybody paid it.

This time, since it is not universal, people who aren't eligible are expected to stump up to cover other peoples free hours.

Several families are already going to take their kids out of the nursery over it, or simply can't afford it any more. Either way, the nursery will end up needing to fill spaces quickly or it really will mean financial trouble for them, which is very bad news for everyone.

I agree it's a rediculous situation OP. Personally I think that parents should be able to reclaim a set amount from the government, up to 30 hours.

It would stop this situation, the administration of the this would be similar (pop it on a portal, submit a pic of an invoice) and it would mean that providers wouldnt be forced to spread the cost among the other parents.

Unfortunately you are one of the many people who will lose out under the 30 hours omnishambles. The whole thing is a joke and nurseries are doing what they have to do to survive. You are absolutely right through, it is not fair on anyone.

isancerre's link will explain it well.

I am a childminder and have already decided that this is my last academic year in the business, because the 30 hours of childcare is having a huge impact on the industry as a whole. The only nurseries that will be able to survive will be the one part of larger chains, where costs can be increased for under 3s and economy of scale will mean that they can thrive. Small providers will close down. Childminder will not be able to carry on.

My local council would give me £4.10 an hour, per funded place. Currently I charge £5.50 an hour, I am in London and I am cheap compared to nurseries. I make just above minimum wage at the moment, and if I was to offer the free 30 hours I would make less than the minimum wage.

Nurseries have to find a way to survive.

OP, I think it's an absolute shame and embarrassment to this country that as a student you are not eligible to 30 hours of free childcare. A couple in which each parent would make £999 999 a year, so a joint income of nearly £200,000 a year, would have access to it. And pay childminders and nursery workers below minimum wage. It's shameful for this country.

I don't use childcare anyomore - but can someone clarify I understand this right?

Certain criteria make you eligible for 30 hours free childcare.
Providers receive a payment per hour that is different in different areas for each child on the 30 hours scheme.
This payment is often less than the providers charge for an hourly rate.
But providers can't charge those eligible for 30 hours a top up payment to match the hourly rate?
So fees are being made even higher for those not eligible to plug the gap?

If I've understood this correctly on what planet of common sense did this scheme get decided

Can someone clarify whether a couple is entitled to 30 hours childcare in these scenario please as the guidelines are unclear.

Couple of which 1 parents works full time but the other is SAHP I'm guessing they are entitled to 15 hours?

Couple 1 parent works fulltime and 1 part time equal 30 hours?

Couple both work part time equals 15 hours childcare?

Parents of three and four year olds will need to meet the following criteria in order to be eligible for 30 hours free childcare:

• They earn or expect to earn the equivalent to 16 hours at National Minimum or Living Wage over the coming three months.
• This equates to £120 a week (or c.£6,000 a year) for each parent over 25 years old or £112.80 a week (or c.£5,800 a year) for each parent between 21 and 24 years old and £56 a week for apprentices in their first year.

And other criteria...

Not available if either parent has an income of more than £100 000 a year (this one cracks me up. Childcare professionals will be just about minimum wage whilst parents of a joint income of £199 999 a year can get free childcare)

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/615804/30_hours_free_childcare.pdf

15 hours is universal for 3-4 year olds, and available for 2 years old if parents met certain criteria ie low income.

'on what planet of common sense did this scheme get decided'

Who knows

When my 3 were little, all I had was CB and I managed so hopefully you will too, good luck with your studies x