Nursery requesting to see my DC passport

[cierzo]

The other day went I collected my DC from nursery I was asked to bring my DC's passport. We just started the 15hrs free allowance, but I do not think this is something to do with that.

Why do they require to see this? Anyone knows if this is related to the new government thing which I saw in the papers and Schools week

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/non-white-schoolchildren-prove-not-asylum-seekers-schools-nationality-documents-london-a7324851.html

schoolsweek.co.uk/pupils-who-were-not-white-british-told-to-send-in-birthplace-data/

Can someone advise?

[cierzo]

The fact that our previous nursery was quite bad in keeping records, and all the issues I'm seeing regarding education, profiling where my DC is going to be classified as, and if our family background is going to hinder DC in any way, yes, I'm a paranoid who looks of the wellbeing of my family.

And frankly after seeing the post of @longlost10 regarding what she called "Tourism Education", I'm not overreacting I think.

[WatchS20]

I don't understand why childminders should keep a record of the nationality of the children the mind. That doesn't make sense. I doubt any illegal immigrant use childminders?

[Longlost10]

I'm in two minds really, some data is useful, particularly if a child is in care, that is good to know, children who have had such an unfair start in life do need the balance redressed to some extent in school

Ethnic origins/nationality/language etc, how can you monitor for racism and prejudice without these stats? And if you don't monitor, how can you identify, and if you don't identify, how do you address?

On the other hand, the more data that is provided, the more hours and days staff have to spend analysing it, much of the statistical analysis applied is useless, meaningless and misapplied after woods, eg for berating schools or teachers, ranking, etc

And everyone is going to have a different judgement about what data is appropriate for a school to have, and what isn't.

I would support anyone refusing to supply data, in principle, but in practice, what if you lose your school place?

[Longlost10]

I violently disagree with being asked to keep a record of who in my classes is gay! I disagree with teenagers even being asked, I disagree with the who implication that it should be decided and set in stone whilst a teen! I've known one girl leave the area because she was embarrassed, at 18 to admit she had realised she was heterosexual after all, and didn't feel she could be herself in front of everyone who had supported her gay identity.... stupid situation. Its no ones business, and it is damaging to try and impose the idea that it has to be decided at a certain date.

[Longlost10]

again, free school meals?? do I really need to know?

[cierzo]

Well, those statistics will be screwed where I live. Most of the kids around are bilingual or trilingual, and the state schools are most of them outstanding by osfted and oversubscribed. Most of the families had an interesting background. The difference is that the area where I live, most people have gone into university and are really middle-class. So for the government to come and have to ask country of origin and nationality that's silly. As I said, they do not need to do that, they just need to send inspectors or advisers of whatever they want to call them, to the schools that are not so good, and see the area, the sort of business and you will find your answer, speak with parents, get them involved, and you can create programs and spend the money wisely really.

At the end this box filling is gets down to - poor, rich, super-rich.

[Longlost10]

I don't understand your 10.17 post cierzo. outstanding by ofsted doesn't hve any meaning, I've been in an "outstanding" school last week, it was horrendous! country of origin, nationality , bilingual trilingual etc is not in any way related to rich/poor, not even remotely! Sending inspectors/adivosrs to schools that are not so good?? Who judges?/ What use do you think inspectors adivsors are??? what is the link between that and statistics? speak with parents?? what?

get parents involved?? how? in what capacity?
create programmes?? what for? why? how? what??

None of this is sensible, none of this is realistic, none of this makes any sense at all, and none is related to the issue we are discussing. This is all airy fairy pie in the sky nonsense.

[Longlost10]

Well, those statistics will be screwed where I live Are you from outside the uk? How would being rich screw the statistics? In what way do you think any of this is related to wealth? Why do you think any of this relates to being middle class or otherwise? Do you know many people in the uk? You seem to have a very warped idea of the social normality here. You have some very strange prejudices! and also no understanding of the education system.

[OddBoots]

The collection of statistics regarding English as an additional language has been happening for a long time, the changes now is that they want a simple assessment of the English abilities of children with EAL as thye recognise that just saying EAL on it's own is meaningless as many children with EAL have a better standard of English than those with it as a first language. I don't agree with the government on this but I do agree that the EAL label is meaningless without expansion.

[cierzo]

I do not think you understand my point @longlost10.

The DoE decided this year that was very important to collect these data because:

"Collecting this data will help ensure our children receive the best possible education."

"It will be used to help us better understand how children with, for example, English as an additional language perform in terms of their broader education, and to assess and monitor the scale and impact immigration may be having on the schools sector."

For me means, they want to know how many kids are coming from foreign/mix families and start to put a finger to blame for the lack of planning in education and resources of successive governments in this country. Maybe our government should be looking how countries such as the Scandinavian ones had a better state education than us. Starting from Early years up to university level. In Finland hardly they are any private schools because there is no need for them.

My reasoning that the results of these statistics won't work in my area, is because where I live, I would say 50% of the families are from mixed families, or from abroad, but their academic results are high. It is also a coincidence that in poor areas schools tend to be underfunded and left behind than in more wealthy areas? I do not think so. And this is plain wrong, all children should be receiving the same good education no matter their background and economics.

This data collection is worrying.

[Longlost10]

My reasoning that the results of these statistics won't work in my area, is because where I live, I would say 50% of the families are from mixed families, or from abroad, but their academic results are high

what do you mean by "statistics won't work"

what makes you think statistics in your area are atypical in any way?

What makes you think Finnish education is better? There are no inspections, teachers teaching hours are far shorter, Finnish children are far more independant. There is a culture of respect for education, and academic rigour. Children are expected to work hard, and they do. Finnish children, or children with that attitude and culture do well in uk schools, Finnish teachers survive no longer in uk schools than uk teachers do, but uk teachers in finnish schools feel like they are on holiday!

There is no inherent advantage to the finnish education system, it is simply the behaviour and attitude to learning of the children that is different. There is not "secret" that our govenment needs to look at,

you are right, I don't understand what point you are trying to make at all. I don't think you know very much about any of this.

[Longlost10]

op, you seem to be taking this request as some sort of personal threat. Lets leave the wild talk about who is middle class, and what goes on in Finland, because none of that is relevant. What I would like to know, is can you explain why being asked to show proof of your child's identity seems to feel like a threat to you?

[UncontrolledImmigrant]

Are there very many uk teachers in Finland then? I would have thought the language of instruction would be Finnish

Well done those uk teachers mastering a language with 13 noun declensions, no wonder teaching in their schools seems like a holiday in comparison

[UncontrolledImmigrant]

And it isn't proof of identity being asked for but rather languages spoken, nationality and ethnicity. My children have UK birth certificates (proof of identity) but these do not indicate anything regarding the other information asked for

[Longlost10]

Are there very many uk teachers in Finland then? yes, there is a lot of exchange, largely because of the myth of some magical Scandinavian education system. Actually, the finnish teachers tend to get a bit embarrassed and frustrated by the misconception that they are doing something different or better.

[Longlost10]

languages spoken, nationality and ethnicity I would say this all comes under "identity"

[paddypants13]

I remember dd's nursery asking for id when she started her 15 free hours. I took her passport in and they took a copy.

[XianLiax]

longlost I have refused to provide the data for my British born British national twins.

There is no threat to me in sharing the data - but I don't wish to play any part in 'othering' children for the sake of it.

This data will achieve nothing for education or for immigration control. It will however be open to being manipulated to political ends - and that is wrong - particularly in the current climate of increasing xenophobia.

[PersianCatLady]

I remember dd's nursery asking for id when she started her 15 free hours. I took her passport in and they took a copy
Exactly, I bet it didn't hurt either did it?

[UncontrolledImmigrant]

Yes, lots and lots of monolingual uk teachers teaching in Finnish in Finland, where you need a masters degree to qualify

Oooooooookayyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[UncontrolledImmigrant]

Really? When you rent a car do they ask for ethnicity? Or cross a border, are you asked which languages you speak?

In what way does this information identify, or verify identity?

It is total bollocks, and transparent to boot, as is the 'nothing to see here' attitudes of some posters

[Longlost10]

Xianliax - good for you, I 100% support anyone refusing to provide the information, I've said that. I'm just querying why the op feels the request is a personal attack on her

[Longlost10]

Yes, lots and lots of monolingual uk teachers teaching in Finnish in Finland, where you need a masters degree to qualify

why does "monolingual" get used as an insult!? ( many monolingul people have largeer vocabularies than some bi and tri lingul people!!) that's completely irrelevant.

You may be surprised to know that a lot of English teachers are not monolingul, and that a lot of lessons in Finnland are in Swedish, and some in English or German, and a few in Russian, as are lessons in Sweden and Denmark.

Swedish is one of the official languages in Finnland. But actually more people want lessons in English than in Swedish.

(There is also a surprising amount of latin used)

[WatchS20]

I think Long is saying a lot of unsubstantiated stuff whilst presenting herself as some sort of expert who has all the statistics and data.

Please long lost, it is time to back up your wild assertions on this thread with some references, yes?

I very much agree with OP's post Wed 28-Sep-16 11:57:12 and this:


"This data will achieve nothing for education or for immigration control. It will however be open to being manipulated to political ends - and that is wrong - particularly in the current climate of increasing xenophobia."

I also refuse to specify my ethnicity and always have done. I am white British with dual nationality. I reject the notion that people can be classified by their place of birth, nationality etc.

I don't think OP feels asking for additional data is a personal attack but she feels singled out and I can understand why.

I also agree that nationality is not an indicator of education achievement. Many children of immigrants come from huh achieving families, in some cases much more so than some 'pure bred' British people. It's got to do with socio-economic background among other things.

[Longlost10]

and lots of uk teachers have masters and PhDs, I really don't understand waht point you re trying to make?