Nursery requesting to see my DC passport

[cierzo]

The other day went I collected my DC from nursery I was asked to bring my DC's passport. We just started the 15hrs free allowance, but I do not think this is something to do with that.

Why do they require to see this? Anyone knows if this is related to the new government thing which I saw in the papers and Schools week

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/non-white-schoolchildren-prove-not-asylum-seekers-schools-nationality-documents-london-a7324851.html

schoolsweek.co.uk/pupils-who-were-not-white-british-told-to-send-in-birthplace-data/

Can someone advise?

[Hamsolo]

We're white and have also been asked, as has everyone else at our nursery. We also have to provide our NI numbers to prove we're entitled to the free hours. It'll depend on your local council's form. Ours is quite detailed.

[CoYoAddict]

This will not be based on your skin colour for goodness sake. If they are asking to see passports in some cases as well as BCs then they want proof that your child is eligible for the free nursery places based on their nationality and that of the parent.

Having a UK birth cert doesn't automatically make you British or a European citizen presumably? I would imagine that the parents citizenship or immigration status is what determines eligibility for the free hours, and it's right and proper that this should be checked.

It's a shame the NHS don't show the same attention to detail.

[UncontrolledImmigrant]

My kids are well past nursery age, are you very sure this is to verify their entitlement to free nursery hours?

[WatchS20]

CoYo so that those grabby foreigners don't take what what's not theirs, eh?

I very much doubt that the parents' nationality has any bearing on the child's eligibility for free hours. NI contributions more likely.

"It's a shame the NHS don't show the same attention to detail."
You needn't worry about this much longerCoYo, the NHS (accessing health care free at the point of service) will be obsolete and buried within the next 5-7 years. You can blame the conservative party for this.

[80sMum]

I don't know if every local authority is the same, but in Surrey, nurseries are required to obtain proof of the child's date of birth when claiming the free hours funding for the first time for that child.
The child's parent has to complete and sign a registration form in order for the nursery to process the claim. On that form, the parent is asked to tick a box which most closely describes the ethnicity of their child. But there is a box they can tick which says "prefer not to say".

Regarding the DfE census, every January all schools are required by Lawers to complete a census. It looks as if the DfE may have decided to collect "country of birth" information in next year's census and the schools are seeking the information from parents now.

I believe that you can refuse to provide ethnicity information. But I think a school is required to obtain proof of age of its pupils, certainly when they are entering public examinations.

[XianLiax]

It is to do with the census.

This year, for the first time, DoE compel schools to ask for nationality and place of birth (though they do not need to see passports for proof). There is some unconvincing double-talk in the guidance document about how this will make sure that foreign nationals make proper progress at school - and is utter bullshit.

What constructive action can the school or the LEA take with the knowledge of someone's place of birth (bearing in mind they already know mother tongue, ethniticity and current proficiency in English)?

This data will next be seen in a Daily Mail headline about foreigners crippling our schools - maybe with a side-order of Brexit negotiations about status of European nationals in the U.K.

It is a very, very negative step.

[80sMum]

*required by law

[cierzo]

@coyoaddict:

As far I am concerned in the government website says: "All 3 to 4-year-olds in England can get 570 hours of free early education or childcare per year. It’s usually taken as 15 hours a week for 38 weeks of the year." and when says "All" I understand it's for every child that lives in England independently of where they've been born or if they got a British passport or not.

www.gov.uk/help-with-childcare-costs/free-childcare-and-education-for-2-to-4-year-olds

As I said when I was asked for it, I was in a rush and did not think about it straight away. It was later over the weekend and after seeing the news that I started to wonder if this was for his 15 hrs entitlement or not.

[CoYoAddict]

Watch I didn't say nationality, I said citizenship or immigration status. Subtle difference there. And yes, in a country where these services are free at the point of uptake I do think it's imperative to check that the people taking it are actually eliglable to do so. Don't you?

The fact that so many people don't see it as a big deal is part of why our public services have descended into crisis.

[cierzo]

The form for the School census:

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/545153/Early-Years-Census-guide-2017-v1_0.pdf

[CoYoAddict]

And I won't be blaming the Tories for anything. I think the NHS in its current bloated wasteful and chaotic form is long overdue a massive overhaul and anything that comes from the ashes of that will hopefully be not no NHS but a better more efficient one.

[CoYoAddict]

Watch and Uncontrolled actually I agree with you both there. I think ethnic profiling should not need to be a factor in delivering a good education. You decide what a good education looks like and you deliver it to everyone equally, irrespective of the ethnic profiling of the children in a school.

[CoYoAddict]

But the powers that be will argue that profiling will indicate where there is likely to be greater 'need' and funding will presumably be weighted and distributed accordingly. Which is pretty patronizing actually even if there might be an argument for it being true.

[CoYoAddict]

And if you are right OP about all children being eligible for the free hours regardless of their parents' citizenship or immigration status or working visa or NI contributions or whatever, then that just goes to prove my point about why we are struggling with funding services to the necessary degree to deliver the high standards we aspire to deliver. What madness. Are there actually any other countries in the world that do something quite that stupid?

[Longlost10]

I do not want my child to be profiled well, better not enrol them into any uk school, college or nursery then, Ofsted demand all this data is held on every pupil, and that schools see proof of legal status for everyone. I personally have refused to participate, and said I am not prepared to act as immigration officer, but the school still has to do it, even if individual staff won't. It is done by admin staff in most cases, although I had a (white) tutee hounded for several weeks because her parents refused to answer questions. They did in the end, because she was in danger of losing her school place if they didn't.

[Unicorn1981]

When my dd started at her new preschool I had to show them her birth certificate. It's for the free hours. I offered the passport but they didn't need that as well.

[OddBoots]

I work in an early years setting and we always ask to see a birth certificate to claim the 15 hours, not to check where a child was born but to check their age as we have had some parent lie to try to get funding before their child is 3.

Separately there is a new requirement of schools to ask the parents where the child was born as part of the government census but there is no requirement for the parents to supply the information much less show a passport. Schools week article about it

[RaspberryIce]

Pupil nationality data 'will not be passed to Home Office' - www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-37474705

[WatchS20]

"The fact that so many people don't see it as a big deal is part of why our public services have descended into crisis."

I agree that mismanagement, political inefficiency, low taxes, tax evasion, lack public investment and many other factors contribute to the dire situation of public services but above all several British governments have, for years, worked hard to minimise / diminish state delivered services. It's a political goal and is the opposite from a fair social democratic society.



"Are there actually any other countries in the world that do something quite that stupid? "
Many other European countries, France, Denmark, Germany heavily state subsided nurseries, they cost about 150 euros for a full time place per month.
I pay 800 a month for three days in the UK.

[cierzo]

Well if they need to collect this data is silly. they just need to go to the poorest neighbourhoods, failing schools and speak with people living in them, no need to check if your kid was born here or in Timbuktu.

This is going to get a bit like Germany with their "migrationshintergrund" where in some cases, as soon as a kid has 1 parent being born abroad for whatever reason, or the kid was born abroad, they classified them as "migration background" and that's how they justified in some parts having 2 classes one for the "organic German" and one for the rest. Not by the ability of the kids if not by their origins.

Asking other friends if they were asked in their nurseries for passports or birth certificates for the 15 hrs, most of them have mentioned they were not asked for anything, but today one of them with a kid in school age was asked to fill a form for the census, but not provide passport.

[Longlost10]

cierzo, it is universal, across all schools and other educational institutes, across the uk. Data is collected, proof is required. That is the way it is.

[CoYoAddict]

Many other European countries, France, Denmark, Germany heavily state subsided nurseries, they cost about 150 euros for a full time place per month.

Yes i know. They are more heavily taxed in those countries than the UK and (possibly the reason why) it is more common for women to work full time when they have pre-schoolers, especially in places like Sweden and Denmark I believe.

However, my question was not whether childcare and medical care was free or cheap, but whether other countries are happy to dish it out to absolutely anyone without either having an eligibility criteria, or bothering to adhere to it.

That's a large part of the problem, certainly historically in the NHS.

[drspouse]

This is just a new requirement. My two DC get/got 2 year funding as they are both adopted. When DC1 got it we didn't have to prove age. For DC2 we had to prove age (and birth certificate was OK - they didn't ask for passport).

There is however something separate about national origins.

[WatchS20]

"owever, my question was not whether childcare and medical care was free or cheap, but whether other countries are happy to dish it out to absolutely anyone without either having an eligibility criteria, or bothering to adhere to it. "

I wouldn't call it dishing out. As far as I know if you are a resident in a country (i.e. not an illegal immigrant) you are eligible to go to school free of charge and paid but not terribly expensive nursery. The same in the UK, why should children whose parents live here legally and pay NI contributions ale use of services paid by the tax payer?

[CoYoAddict]

Of course they should Watch but you don't know whether they fall into any of those criteria unless and until you ask. That's my point.