Nursery suggesting dd has special needs

[MamaChocoholic]

Today we went to collects our twins (ds and dd, 4.5) from nursery. They are in separate classes there in the morning, then together in the childcare provision in the afternoon.

We were met by one of the childcare provision staff to say that ds had had some very "challenging behaviour", not listening to adults, and when dd was at the bottom of the slide he went down and knocked her over so she scraped her cheek on the floor. This I can well believe, and I asked whether dd was standing deliberately at the bottom of the slide, as they like to play these sort of games with each other even when told not to.

I was then told "well, dd is no angel either, and doesn't listen". Apparently she struggles to split her attention, and in some respects functions more like a 2yo than a 4yo and that I should speak to the special needs co-ordinator.

So. I left, rather embarrassed and worried. This is the first time bad behaviour has been raised in months. The only previous time was about six months ago, when they were being silly together at meal times about a week after they started there. Previous feedback from their teachers at nursery has been very positive, and now I'm left worrying about dd, wondering where this has come from, seemingly out of the blue and also getting a bit cross that I've been left with these thoughts all weekend.

What do I do with this information?

Ask them for the past six months' daily reports from the children's folders, a full explanation of exactly what their concerns are, request a meeting with the SENCO urgently and ask for the SENCO's monitoring observations in advance (because if the nursery is suggesting a meeting with SENCO, they would obviously have involved the SENCO internally first before making such alarming comments to the parents), and ask what interventions the nursery has already tried in order to be so sure about SEN; finally, ask why this has never been raised as a concern before. Then have a large glass of wine whilst they panic and backtrack... If there are concerns it will at least make them think twice about how to discuss them with you.

What do you think?
do you think she functions 2 years behind her age? That's a massive statement to make.
I would make an appointment to talk to the nursery manager about both dc. I would want a record of their observations about my dc.
I knew my ds1 had sn and preschool just confirmed my fears, but if you have no worries then I would just keep a careful eye out... a nursery nurse is not qualified to diagnose special needs.

I would book an appointment so you can talk about it properly with nursery, away from collecting them when you're usually in a rush and looking after the children. I'd be wanting to go through their records too (presuming they keep folders / files of achievements and how they're progressing against the Early years milestones - if they're still called that). Do they have a key worker/s? I'd want them in on the meeting too (not just one of the staff.

I'd also want to know what "special needs" they think they have. Get the special needs lady in too. I'd want them to explain / give evidence / examples of why its a trigger for a "special needs" comment, rather than challenging behaviour. If they genuinely think there is an issue, what are they proposing - how do they take this forward?

I have B/G twins and definitely DS had an issue with listening (to the extent that I was worried for a while that he had problems with his hearing). We were under a speech and hearing specialist for a while, for both of them (mainly due to their prematurity) but they are fine.

From your post, it certainly sounds like twin behaviour at that age, I wouldn't be unduly concerned, but I would have a meeting with them to go through it in more detail. Good luck .

Thank you, all good replies.

To answer define's question: do I think she has SEN? I don't know. She isn't generally functioning 2 years behind, she can dress herself, toilet etc independently, she is starting to read (ds is not, which is also fine). But she does struggle to focus, eg cannot watch TV, or play a board game for as long as her siblings before getting bored.

BOTW, as you put it like that, I doubt she has involved the SENCO (who is also ds's teacher) before making these comments.

mandy, thanks for the reassurance.

I think I will have a chat with dd's teacher on Monday morning, and then request a formal meeting with her, the SENCO and the childcare provision staff member. I will ask how this report fits with the other reports I've had which have all been positive, and whether, if they discuss her together, they do believe there are SEN to address. If so, how should we start that, and if not, why was this alarming statement made?

Challenging behaviour is a special need
Do you know raising the subject of a child potentially having additional needs is the hardest thing that early years workers have to do and they don't get any training on how to do it.
It is unlikely they have daily written records and mountains of reports, staff can observe and make assessments from just their knowledge of children and child development
As for asking the nursery what sort of seen she has, well that's just daft. They won't know that, they are not trained to diagnose, just to raise concerns and refer to the right people.
Sometimes it takes a few months to build up a picture and track a child's development
Would you rather they said nothing and ignored their concerns?
Work with the nursery to support your dd to make sure she gets the best support she can get. Early intervention is key to unlocking every child's potential
Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message
You will know your dd the best but the nursery staff are experts in child development and will seen hundreds of children. They are able to judge if a child needs some extra support and only have the best interests of your dd in mind. I doubt they have a hidden agenda

Couldn't disagree more insancerre. Challenging behaviour is not special needs. It may be something to be concerned about, it may need further investigation, but saying as you did "Challenging behaviour is a special need" without any caveat is misguided in my view. As a parent of 3 children, they have all, at times, demonstrated what I would class as "challenging behaviour", none of them has special needs.

And no, I don't think its "daft" either to ask a nursery what special needs they think a child has. Of course it is better that they flag something up, and yes, I do appreciate that the conversation with the parent may be very difficult, but as you say, it is the parent who knows the child best and she was, up until nursery raised the issue, not aware of any issues. It is therefore reasonable to ask for more specific details of what they think how, why and in what areas the child has special needs.

I agree with mandy ^^ challenging behaviour is not special needs it is certain behaviour traits that need to be addressed/monitored and / or acted upon. If you don't ask the nursery staff what or where the problem is then you cant go about finding out how to address it. You need details in order to create a plan of action if one is needed.

Insancerre is absolutely right. If a child is demonstrating challenging behaviour, then it is a need that needs to be addressed, so therefore it is a special need for that child, at that time. No, it doesn't necessarily mean the child is going to have a lifetime special need, but at the time it is happening, it needs to be addressed. (Sorry OP - I was replying to Mandy214)

Insancerre also makes a really good point about how difficult it is for Nursery staff to know how and why to raise things - you only have to read MN for knowing they can't do right for doing wrong. If they mention concerns as soon as they begin to have them, it's 'too soon' for some parents - they say there are no records or that they are still settling in, etc., If they leave it longer, then they get the 'Why wasn't I told about this earlier'. They are between a rock and a hard place.

From what the OP has written, they have done what they should - mention it to parent (who wasn't surprised about the challenging behaviour side) and said that it would be good to arrange a meeting with the SENCo.

OP - obviously I have no idea about the developmental stages of either of your dc, but it sounds like you are doing absolutely the right thing, in trying to ensure all people involved - the childcare element who see your 2 dc together each after noon, and the Nursery teachers who see them separately in the mornings, and of course yourself, all sit down together in a pre-arranged meeting and have a look at where each of your dc are "at" and if there is anything that anyone can put in place to support them over anything they may be struggling with at the moment.

Back for good I think I was coming at it from a parent's point of view in response to the OP and perhaps its a perception thing (maybe Insancerre was coming at it from a nursery worker's point of view) - yes, challenging behaviour is something that needs to be monitored/ addressed, but it was the fact that the nursery referred the OP to the "special needs co-ordinator". In my understanding (and am more than happy to be corrected!), I'd have thought a special needs co-ordinator in a nursery / school environment was involved with children who had particular needs / recognised medical or developmental conditions that meant they needed assistance, not just that the child demonstrated challenging behaviour every now and again.

Its the label that I objected to - and the implications of Insancerre's post - that challenging behaviour = special needs.

Hope you've had chance to speak to the nursery OP.

In most Nurseries,(not all) the SENCo is usually the B.Co as well, as, when working with 2 and 3 yr olds it really is difficult to separate out the two. A lot of challenging behaviour comes from the fact that the child has communication difficulties or sensory difficulties (but can't express this) so the SENCo is usually involved in any discussions around difficult behaviour to see if they can support the child who is demonstrating the behaviour - which may, or may not end up being related to a special need of some sort.

Honestly, my DS was like this at their age and I wish nursery had picked up on his behaviour and suggested that some professionals were consulted. Fast forward a few (very difficult) years and he's just been diagnosed with ADHD, which although it is great, I wish it hadn't taken 4/5 years to get here. School has been so hard or DS.

If your child/ten had got "special needs" it's not your fault or their fault. IMO it's better to get things checked out now and to start the ball rolling now and know rather than postponing it and not allowing your child to access the support that they potentially need.