Am I expecting too much from nursery? Thoughts please

[ilovechops]

We have recently relocated from London to a different part of the UK. DD is 2yrs 8months. In London she went to a nursery 3 days a week, small, friendly nursery with only 14 children aged between 1yrs and 4.5yrs. She was in the 'older' group which was made up of 3 & 4 yr olds and she was younger but slotted in great. She loved this nursery, came on leaps and bounds and left each day with a zest for life and an enthusiasm for learning. The staff were loving and passionate about their work. She is a bright girl (I know all parents think this!!) but she is reading and spelling 3-4 letter words out, knows all her letters, simple sums already at 2.5yrs. I know she's quite smart and think a lot of this was helped by a strong nursery who have advised me that she achieving beyond average.

Now we have moved, the new nursery seems, well somewhat lacking in comparison. It's 'fine', safe, great toys etc but the kids are just a shadow of where she's been, they all seem a bit fed up and the staff aren't any better. The reviews are good but she's been there nearly 3 weeks now and comes home telling us she doesn't like it. She mucks in and plays with the kids but tells me she doesn't like the teachers. Every time I have dropped her off /picked her up she is playing alone/with children but the staff don't interact. They put them in front of something e.g.sand pit, train track and just leave them to it. The play but I don't think she is being taught / learning much. Also the staff in her room change all the time, loads of them have been off sick so there's been no consistent face for 3 weeks.

I don't really know what to do. The only other option close by that is a nursery (which I would prefer as she loves the interaction) is a private prep school one so A.) pricey and B.) setting us on a totally different path...

I know when she starts Pre school there will be a curriculum and she will be taught to read and write but I feel that's a year away (sep 2015 for her) and in the meantime she's missing out.

I have her at home 1 day myself and 1 day with my mother but I would really like to feel confident that she's in a stimulating environment at other times and I don't think I do. Is this normal for a nursery or should I be asking to see lesson plans etc rather than just a list of what she's had to eat / how many times she's used the toilet at this age?

Thanks

If she's doing all that at 2.5 yrs I'd check out the prep and see what they offer

I'm risking being flamed, but she's 2!! she may be bright, but let her play.

She needs to also learn to adapt to new surroundings like this as well as read and write.

I am happy for my toddler to be able to play at nursery without formal learning. Small children learn lots through play & learning to interact with other children.

I suppose the answer is that you should look at other nurseries if you are not happy with how the current one operates/organises itself.

Thanks.

I agree Party. I want her to play really too I think it's just that she wants to learn, she asks to read stuff and do her 'cards' with words on so she's eager. If I'm honest I haven't encouraged as much as some (!) I know I wasn't like that at 2 but her dad is brainy so maybe from his side!

I agree she needs to be able to mix in new and different surroundings tho and perhaps she will just find her place. She is playing nicely and the kids seem nice and friendly I just don't think the adults seem to interact with them much other than asking if they need the loo / wiping their nose. I've never heard any song singing or joking around with the children really and it just seems a bit sad for a nursery!!

OP, sorry I don't have any answers but I was wondering of you'd be kind enough to message me please the name of the wonderful nursery in London? Thanks

Look at other nurseries - neither you nor she seem happy there. You get 15 free hours from the term after she turns 3 so it's not as expensive as you might think to send her to a private nursery. You can always move her later on.

Just because she goes to the private school nursery doesn't mean she has to carry on through at that school, so why not have a look at it? The three private schools around here aren't expensive for the nursery years.

The nursery in London does sound exceptional though, you'll find it hard to find anywhere like that again!

They won't be teaching her to read and write in her pre-school year, if they are following the EYFS. It's all about play, learning through play, following the child's lead, encouraging language, social skills, problem solving skills, physical skills etc., not reading and writing.

Yes you are expecting too much
I run a preschool and we don't teach reading and writing
We prepare children for the transition to school
We are not school
Google early years foundation stage development matters and you will find the document by the department of education that all early years providers follow
This will give you an idea of what a child of your dds age should be achieving

Lesson plan? At two? Calm down Op!

I don't think the new nursery sounds great though. The staff should be engaged with the children and it doesn't sound like they are. What about a child minder?

I am not sure you are asking too much. I manage a nursery. They should be observing her and setting appropriate next steps for her interests and development. Did they ask you about her development/ask for other nurseries records? This should have informed them of her initial starting point.

They may still be getting to know her. Ask them how they plan for the children.

Disinterested staff is a huge issue but staff sickness may just be unfortunate, we have had a horrendous few weeks as hit by d & v as well as a horrible virus.

Some good points raised here.

Sorry lesson plan probably wasn't the right term!! I went to view the private school nursery today and they have a 'plan' of the week, this is time for dance, time for PE, outdoor play, science and nature (learning about seasons etc), Spanish and yoga!! Current nursery has nothing like this. They basically (from what I have seen and haven't been told anything else) it's free play all day but with activities they can dip in and out of eg play doh, painting etc. When I ask what they've done it's normally the case that no one really knows as they're 'just covering' or they've been outside in the garden (all day?!) also today I called to check she was ok and was told 'yeah she's just playing a game on the tablet right now so is happy with that'. Admittedly this could have been In a group and an educational game but I wasn't told that, the way it was said it was her playing by herself. Every time I've visited the staff are very hands off sitting back and kids just play around them, there's no interaction. They don't say bye bye to each other. Just seems a bit sad for a nursery!

They haven't asked anything about previous nursery. I offered her last report and someone took it but hasn't commented. There doesn't seem any sort of 'path' or any way to feedback as she doesn't seem to have a key worker (there's a temp one but she is leaving soon).

Anyway think we have decided to raise it on Monday and see if they respond well / can offer any suggested improvements otherwise move her.

The private one seemed excellent really and most importantly the kids seems very very happy, lively and to be enjoying themselves which is what we are looking for most of all. But it's still not that cheap even with the extra funding.

I would consider a childminder and will also look at that as an alternative option as there's probably more choice locally.

Should say, I'm not against the use of tablets at nursery but I could work at home whilst she sits on that in the lounge easily enough.

I think you've been given some great advice. I think the most important thing for under 3s is one on one responsive attention which often can't be provided in a nursery so go for nanny or cm. My oldest dc is super intelligent and was really encouraged by a fabulous cm. However we did then have similar options to you and chose the local pre school for her where they followed eyfs and it was basically play doh etc as you have described... Cost wasn't a factor for us, we just thought it was the best option given the overall picture. My dd was never going to struggle with the academic side of reception and preschool gave her loads of confidence on the social side and helped her learn how to manage unstructured time etc. While my gut feeling initially said go with the structured prep school as it would play to her strengths, I am glad we didn't go with that as preschool taught her other equally important things and I've always done loads of activities outside school time with my DC anyway so the french,yoga etc wouldn't have been of particular benefit to dd. And I'm not particularly bothered about academics but dd is now in year 4 and working 1 to 2 years ahead in maths and English so obviously the decisions we made didn't hold her back too much.

I'm not against nursery per se as my 16 month old is in a great small one and gets brilliant dedicated attention from her key worker. I just think what babies and toddlers need is harder to provide in a nursery setting.I don't think yours sounds great but it wouldn't be the fact they hadn't clocked her intelligence levels that would be my concerns there....

Sounds like disengaged staff being the problem, not the activities themselves. Dd is 2.8 and her nursery staff treat the kids like small colleagues, doing everything together. I wouldn't worry about explicit phonics but would want to be sure they were talking with the kids a lot. I've encountered a few 'hands off' staff and wouldn't like them staying at my kids' nursery.

They won't be teaching her 'a proper curriculum' in pre school, they should be following the eyfs which used unit they start year 1 at school. Have you looked at the planning, there are often lots if learning experiences behind play opportunities such as the sandpit or the train track. It isn't just about reading and writing and there are lots of other important skills that your child should be learning before this. It really annoys me when parents put so much emphasis on reading and writing when the children are so young. Give them a chance, they may be interacting with children throughout the whole day and the time when you arrive is when children are left to have a play, use imagination and develop important social skills. Three weeks is quite early for your daughter to properly settle and you to get a good view if the nursery. Good luck!

"Every time I've visited the staff are very hands off sitting back and kids just play around them, there's no interaction. They don't say bye bye to each other"

NotCitrus - "Sounds like disengaged staff being the problem,"

That

Sound like poor quality staff who get in at 8 and count off the hours until they get home. They do the stuff they're told to do but not much else. Filler staff. There aren't many great staff about so nurseries have to settle for poor quality staff to maintain ratios.
A lot of good staff turn into filler staff after being brought down by management or a company that constantly limits them so they end up thinking "why bother trying".

Go to a better nursery, and yes, it will probably be more expensive because good staff want good wages.

I'm another one who thinks it is the staff which are the problem & you need to figure out if it is just a bad patch or if it is always like this.
As for what they are covering, I would expect dance, singing, nature, "science" to be covered pretty much every day with this age group whether it is timetabled or go with the flow. Go with the flow is probably better as your nature session will depend on the weather. Our nursery always too the children out whatever the weather but it would be shorter if really cold & wet. The only timetabled activity they had was singing once a week as that was with an external teacher but they still sang every day.
As for the "academic" side of things, DC1 is quite bright & old for her year. Whilst I didn't hold her back in her last year at nursery, I didn't do much reading, writing or sums with her as I was worried I'd teach her to do things differently to how they were going to do it at school. Instead, I focused on her weaknesses. She wasn't very good at climbing & things so she did gymnastics & her singing voice is dreadful so we spent 30 mins a week with a local piano teacher who was brilliant with her. Not teaching her piano or singing but singing with her, talking a bit about sounds & getting DC1 to listen to the difference. And we continued with ballet & swimming.
And we had a lot of fun.
DC1 has now started school, is really enjoying it & able to read & write CVC words, something she couldn't do a month ago but would have been able to if we had done it at home. I understand (from the teacher) that she is one of the first in her particular class to be able to do as much as she can but, importantly to my mind, she is learning with the rest of the class rather than be bored rigid & taken out to have lessons with Y1 & Y2 which is what is happening to a friend's DC in the parallel class who has been reading & writing for ages.
I think you may need to change nurseries but perhaps for slightly different reasons to the ones you identified.

Personally I think it's a bit of both. Yes, learning through play is the best way for a child to learn. But at the same time, if a child is able to write letters, and understands phonics- you don't just ignore that because they aren't at school. If you have concerns I would ask for a meeting with the key worker of your child and ask to have some target points. A good nursery should have this already, whether it be learning to walk, learning to potty train, etc. the EYFS covers all ages- from birth to school. So actually they are working on a curriculum already. You need to be happy and comfortable with the nursery. At the end of the day you are paying for her to be happy, and cared for. If then you still feel like the staff are in motivated and don't feel like they are doing enough for you, it may then need for you just to say your worries to the manager. As a nursery nurse and my daughter going to nursery, I have seen first hand that sometime the staff have been in the same room for quite a while and lose motivation, so the manager may need just a little heads up for a move around and to keep things fresh!