Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Nurseries

Find nursery advice from other Mumsnetters on our Nursery forum. For more guidance on early years development, sign up for Mumsnet Ages & Stages emails.

Do you have to top up your nursery fees, over and above what the goverment pay?

18 replies

charliecat · 29/07/2006 13:35

Have a read here

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Gobbledigook · 29/07/2006 13:38

So, mine go to a nursery from 9.15 to 1pm. I get the funding for the 2.5 hours a day and pay for the extra. Are they saying that we won't be able to do that now - either the nursery has to pay the extra or the parent pays the whole cost??

charliecat · 29/07/2006 13:48

Thats what i gathered from it too but TBH I dont know!

OP posts:
LizP · 29/07/2006 20:30

must say I thought that it wasn't OK even now to charge just a top up on a session - you had to have some extra service - like lunch. Also the funding is due to increase to 15 hours a week in the next couple of years. I would think they could get round it by having a 2.5 hour morning session - then at an addition cost offer a lunch club and an afternoon session. Could also do a breakfast club and charge for that too if they normally take kids early.

foxinsocks · 29/07/2006 20:34

they must have buggered that up (the government)

if you can't pay over and above the grant, you'd have to shut down virtually every nursery/pre-school in W and SW London

Katymac · 29/07/2006 20:34

I our area the 2.25 hours is funded at £7.73

This works out at 3.43 per hour

If your nursery costs £4 per hour they can only charge £3.43 for that 2.25 hours

But in actality they will just put their rates up to £4.25 (cynical huh?) for the hours outside the 2.25 a day

charliecat · 29/07/2006 20:36

Katymac I know thats what dds old nursery did, but it looks like they are going to stop nurserys doing that.

OP posts:
mazzystar · 29/07/2006 20:36

surely if its a longer session than two and a half hours, you are paying for the additional time, which is itself an additional service?

i read this as the nursery's charge for the 2.5 hours was higher, hence the "top-up" needed.

BoilingHotFrayedKnot · 29/07/2006 20:36

I don;t understand what they mean.

DS goes to a day nursery 8am-1pm Mon-Fri, including through the holidays, because I work.

I assumed he would get 2.5 hours a day during term time paid for by the grant when he turns 3.

Will this not be the case, then?

Bugger if it is.

BoilingHotFrayedKnot · 29/07/2006 20:37

Oh I see it's for teh actual 2.5 hours not for any extra time they are there.

Katymac · 29/07/2006 20:39

In actuallity how can they stop nurseries charging a higher rate?

Nurseries will set their rates as they please and claim business need

The nurseries round here are furious btw

charliecat · 29/07/2006 20:41

Because if they take the grant - they are bound to the rules?
Because if they refuse the grant they will lose business because people will go elsewhere to somewhere that they do get free hours?

OP posts:
Katymac · 29/07/2006 20:41

IMO - it means that nurseries will not offer sessions - it will either be daycare or nothing

ThePrisoner · 30/07/2006 15:17

I wonder if accredited childminders will be similarly affected then - parents usually pay the extra hourly rate over and above the government-funded amount as well.

alibubbles · 31/07/2006 06:27

I am an accredited childminder and I have the grant paid direct to the parents, I used to take it off the bill, but the former is simpler for me and parent.

I know a nursery owner who says those who don't wish to pay a top up collect their children at 11.30 instaed of 12. it would have been a bit disruptive, but all parents pay it!

I don't know whether I want to take the funding anymore, as there is so much paperwork involved just for 1 child. I know my network coordinator would be disappointed as she is looking forward to me being the first one inspected for education. I have my Ofsted first week of September.

80sMum · 12/08/2006 13:01

The whole Nursery Grant situation is ridiculous! Of course nurseries are going to put up their fees in response to the new rules! What choice do they have? Don?t blame the nurseries. They?re not the bad guys here. It?s the government rules that are to blame.

Just suppose it was some other kind of business that the government had interfered with, instead of nurseries. This is how it works:
Imagine you set up a business making and selling nappies, for example. You get the business up and running, employ staff and build up a good client base. You set your prices carefully, so that you keep the business running and the staff paid, keep the price competitive with rival businesses and hopefully make a modest profit to make all the hard work worth your while. You are happy, your staff are happy and your customers are happy.

Then, the government announces that all children under two will be entitled to receive 4 free nappies a day, paid for by a ?nappy grant? administered by the local authority. To get their free nappies, parents have to go to a nappy provider that is registered with the local authority to receive ?nappy grant?.
Of course, everyone wants their free nappies and all of your competitors rush to register and you begin to lose customers and your profit margins shrink, so that you have to register as well in order for your business to survive.

You normally sell your nappies at 50p each. That?s how much you need to sell them for in order to keep your business running. But the government only pays you 30p for every ?free? nappy that you give to parents, leaving you with large deficits to make up. Most of your customers actually need more than the 4 nappies provided by the grant. Most people want 8 nappies a day. Before the grant arrived, you would have charged £4 for those 8 nappies. Now you the charge parents £2.80 instead (i.e. £4 minus the £1.2 you receive in grant for the 4 ?free? nappies). So, you?re not making any more money than you were before, you?re just getting it from different sources. Everybody's happy again; the parents get their 8 nappies for £2.80 instead of £4 and you keep your business running as before.

That was how it used to be until recently, when the rules changed.
Now, you must charge the same price for your nappies to everyone, regardless of whether they are eligible for the free entitlement or not. This means that you can no longer charge £2.80 as before. Because your usual price for your nappies is 50p each, you must only charge that amount, so for those getting 4 ?free? nappies, you can only charge £3.20 for their 8 nappies per day (i.e 50p each for the extra 4 nappies).
But your business requires £4 in order to survive. You?re losing 80p on every customer and will quickly go out of business. The only thing you can do is to increase the basic cost of your nappies to 70p for everyone, enabling you to charge £2.80 again for the 4 ?free? and 4 ?top up? nappies.
This of course means that people that don?t qualify for the ?nappy grant? have to pay a lot more for their nappies ? and they rightly feel aggrieved ? and you only want to charge them 50p but are forced to charge higher rates in order to keep your business alive!
So you try to set up some sort discount system for your ?non-grant? customers, so they only actually pay £5. But you?re told this isn?t allowed either.

Now you have a rough idea of what the nursery grant rules mean to nurseries!!

It's no wonder some of them are giving up.

Normsnockers · 12/08/2006 13:24

Message withdrawn

80sMum · 12/08/2006 13:41

Maybe I should! whoever makes up these ludicrous rules seems to have no idea how businesses work!

It's a shame that the nurseries seem to get blamed by the parents and accused of 'money-grabbing' when all they're doing is trying to comply with these idiotic rules!

hana · 12/08/2006 14:11

I paid a top up fee for dd1's preschool for the past 2 years -
thought all places did it
better read the article

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread