Why do I have to commit to a minimum of 5 sessions a week??

[glasjam]

HI there - My boy is 2 and a bit - will be 3 next January. I have been home with him since birth but am now planning on starting him at nursery. I am starting with 1 afternoon a week at a private nursery in August just to get him used to the idea of being away from me. The idea was that when he starts officially with the funded place at the state nursery, he could keep this private session going and then I would send him for 3 sessions at the state one. The good thing about the private one is that it is in partnership with the council so I can also get partially funded for this 1 x 3hr session. It is also a lovely place and I think the combination of the more busy, bustling "school-like" feel of the state nursery and the more smaller, calm vibe of the private one would be good for him.

This was the plan anyway! However, at the registration session for the state nursery - when I said I wanted him to go for just 3 mornings they said "Oh we can only accept him for a minimum of 5 sessions" When I told them that I really didn't feel it necessary for him to be at pre-school that much they said "you can by all means only send him for 3 mornings but you have to say that you are sending him for 5" OK, so that sounded fine but then they delivered the blow of "You won't be able to get any assistance from the council if you send him anywhere else for the other 2 days"

So basically in a nutshell - they only want parents who say they are going to do the full 5 sessions so that THEY the nursery get the full maximum funding per place. The implication was that 1) they would prefer to operate with all children attending 5 sessions a week 2) if parents didn't want that they should "pretend" that they did 3) If you didn't want to play that game then your child would not be given a place

Is this the case anywhere else?

It's a nice little nursery just 5 mins from home but I don't want him there 5 mornings a week - at least not until he's maybe nearer 4 - and I DO want the flexibility of him continuing at the private nursery for 3 hours a week but can't afford the full fees for that beyond this year. (that's if he likes it of course!)

Has anyone else felt that they have been forced to "pretend" that they are going to be sending their child more times a week than they actually are - is this actually a legitimate practice or is it bending the rules slightly??

I live in Glasgow if that has any bearing on the situation.

Cheers!

Hi Glas, not an expert, sorry, but have heard this before on MN. State nurseries all seem to say it's five sessions or nothing. I guess this is because they want certainty of numbers due to govt. funding.

I agree, of course it should be down to what the child needs, not the setting, and I wouldn't have wanted my DS to go for that many sessions either. In fact he starts school in Sept but still does only three sessions at pre-school a week.

I guess you'll have thought of it but could you afford to use the funding to pay for three sessions at the private nursery and just top up what's necessary?

Or are there other non state pre-schools around? Most pre-schools seem to be completely flexible around numbers of sessions attended and will be free.

i ve noticed this about state nursery schools too.
i appreciate that they will be unable to get anyone else to fill the place for the remainding 2 or 3 sessions per week as they need the funding to pay for the staff who must attend 5 x days and to buy equipment for 5 x days.
we also found this a problem at my nursery.
however i do accept children whos parents feel they should only do 2 or 3 or 4 etc per week,
i try and fit them in around the children who attend full time or attend 2 or 3 full days per week.
we also accomodate parents by letting children attend for 2 full days and the parents pay the difference between the grant and the fees to cover staff, overheads, and food, etc
this works well for working parents.
the thing with state schoolds, they have a monopoly and have such long waiting lists that they dont care who they turn away , as there will always be another child to take the place whereas private nurseries are more customer based and wish to provide a service to attract parents and children.

we sometimes get chilren who will attend 1 or 2 sessions for a term with us, they when mum feels they are ready go to "big school" for the full 5 sessions for the next term.
there is still a stigma with private nurseries and no matter how good we are, some parents feel they are getting a better deal at the state schools when really there is no difference, it just depends on the staff in that particular nursery or school.

Isn't it fraud for them to be fully aware that you're only going to send him for 3 sessions and yet to claim for 5?
Also, state nurseries are so popular that I doubt they'd have difficulty getting someone for the other 2 days. Maybe speak to your HV and ask if she knows of another family keen to 'week share' with you. I don't see how they could protest at that.

how old will he be when he starts? if he's older than 3, you may find that 5 sessions is not such a hardship for him as you think!

These places are normally only for 2 and a half hours so not too exhausting (though it does tire them out!). You may also find that he doesn't want to go to 2 places once he starts in the second one.

Have you read this? www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/GoingtoSchool/Nursery_Pre5/whatyouareentitledto.htm

"Should you wish to use some sessions in a Glasgow City Council nursery in addition to a private provider then you can, provided you do not claim any more than 5 sessions per week."

Don't know if it will be of much help though..
I'm also in Glasgow and in a similar position with a 2.5 year old. The state nursery i spoke to however said there wouldn't be a problem if you wanted to use them and another. Whereabouts are you?
Hope that helps...:)

Don’t let them bully you into pretending to use them for more days than they offer. It is fraud. Knowingly putting your child on their register for days that they do not attend is breaking the law as I read it.
I used to deal with all the voucher paperwork in our local playgroup (not a nursery granted, but still handled the same paperwork) and it is very clear about it being illegal to claim for sessions untended. They ask for accurate registers and yearly headcounts. They also require parental signatures to say that you are attending all those sessions.
Any nursery willing to cut corners like this to get funding they are not entitled to should be shopped in my opinion - it is not fair on all those out there playing by the rules. Also, it makes you wonder about other corners they might cut - for example, messing about with child ratios/health safety, accurate insurance etc.
I really would be very careful in any dealings with any place that cooks the books. Especially if you are trusting them with your children.

is it just for pre school or an actual nursery place?
I put my dd in for one session at 2.5 yrs. Two seesions at 3 and now at 3.5 she is up to 5 mornings - that is in a nursery session not a pre school session - they apply for funding for a portion of her care and I pay the rest.
Although that said they accpet preschool as many or as few sessions as you need

Hi there - thanks for the replies - interesting to read your take on this. After mulling this over ALOT I have had a slight change of heart. I started to wonder whether I might end up confusing my son by starting him at 1 nursery in the Summer then sending him for an additional 3 sessions at somewhere different in January. I didn't want a scenario where he really enjoyed his 1 session at the private nursery and then didn't like the state one.

So I have finally decided to keep it simple and just start him in January at the state nursery. I couldn't bear the scenario where he just wanted to keep going to the private one - because even with full funding it would still prove prohibitively expensive for us to send him there.

However, I still want to have the option of only sending him for 3 sessions a week at the state one. So am very interested in the idea that it might be slightly dodgy to insist that I "say" that I am sending him for 5!! I haven;t checked out the website yet that Loulee sent me (thanks!) but will do so. I am in Hyndland by the way - is that anywhere near you? The state nursery looks really good and I have heard good things about it- however, as of next term they will be down a teacher as all Glasgow nurseries seem to be losing a teacher position due to Council cutbacks - GREAT eh?

Of course he might just go there in January - decides he loves the place and want to go there EVERY morning - that would be typical - I just don't want to make that decision for him yet.

I think I have to play it very carefully - I don't want to go along to the induction in Oct/Nov and screw things up by insisting on 3 sessions and then get turned down. I never thought that this would be such a tricky business!!

I don't think it is fraud - I've come across a few state nurseries that do this. The reason they can do it is because they only offer a place conditional on it being a minimum of 5 days. So he would have a place for 5 days, even if he only went for 3 (and I imagine that the other 2 days they would be unable to offer to another child). Where it would be dodgy wouldbe if they gave your child 3 days, claimed for 5 and then filled up the remaining 2.

Dd is having 4 mornings from next term, and what I am going to do is to have them available, but not always send her every day. As long as you let them know they are fine with this (it's not a state run one, but is fully funded by the state iyswim!).

Glad you feel more sorted Glasjam. i was talking to my dp last night about this (we have been debating private vs state nurseries / changing from one to another etc. too..) - it seems like such a big decision at the moment, but I've a funny feeling i may look back + wonder what all the fuss was about! - I hope so anyway. I've heard lots of good reports about the state nursery in Hyndland, so i am sure he will love it. I'm in woodlands, so not so far away, but diff. nursery, tho my dd does go to montessori at the moment + absolutely loves it.