Nursery - how much space do babies need?

[PickledLily]

I'm looking for a nursery for when my LO will be 12mths and visited one that has been praised here on Mumsnet and also by colleagues. However when I visited, I was taken aback by small size of the baby room (it was about the size of an average sitting room). The adjoining 'outdoor' space was little more than a small, dowdy-looking concrete courtyard with little light or greenery. No matter how good the nursery is, I couldn't imagine a baby being particularly happy in such a small room 5 days, or even 3 days, a week.

I honestly don't have a clue about nurseries, LO being my pfb :) How important is space to roam/change of scene for babies at that age?

There are standards the amount of space per child, baby rooms requiring the most sqft per child, how many children does the room cater for? I suspect it'll be around 6?

Potentially 15. Maybe I got the numbers wrong but I don't think so. There is an adjoining room that they use for messy stuff and lunch, but most of the time it seems that room is out of bounds.

I guess it's the lack of opportunity for a change of scene (no windows to look out of, for example, other than the dowdy courtyard) that bothers me as much as the lack of space for moving around.

Sadly they probably are taking the messy area into the room size requirements, it doesn't sound great but many of the nurseries I've worked in (and I seem to have a run of bad luck) rarely took the baby room outside.

But I think it's a positive that they do have access to their own courtyard and hope that they will utilise it, so they get fresh air.

I am surprised by the amount of babies but perhaps my idea of an average sized sitting room is different to yours

Babies need 3.5 square metres, so if it's the size of an average living room, they would be allowed around 4 babies! For 15 babies you would need a large room!!! X

Hmm that's interesting. The room must have been bigger than I remember or I've got the number of babies wrong!

But don't babies get bored being in the same confined space all day? I know they have activities but my LO already seems to get restless if I don't give her a change of scene.

3.5 square metres. That's about 3 wheel barrows.

Yes, babies do get bored in one small space all day. That's why childminders are such a better option.
They go out every day to playgroups, kidrock, jojingles etc. as well as trips to parks, friends' houses, choosing lunch from the shop etc. All with much more individual care as they are strictly limited with ratios.
Food is far more likely to be home made and CM's work to exactly the same EYFS standards of safeguarding, paediatric first aid, plus of course the continual assessment and observation aspect to ensure progress is being made in all areas of learning.
Children also often stay with their CM up to school age, and then continue as after / before school care and holidays. Some of my little ones have been with me 10 years and are definitely part of the family.
Please explore the CM option; if you know nothing about CMs feel free to ask!

Thanks moogsta, a CM may well be the answer. I definitely want LO with other children and with lots of variety. I hadn't appreciated that they would go out and about so much with a CM.

Depends how good the nursery is, we spend alot of time outdoors, at the park, story time at the library. Activities are very varied and enjoyable and they have lots of other children to play alongside. I would vote nursery every time you just have to find a good one!

15 babies in a baby room? Alarm bells are ringing! Lots of research to show that large groups are a big stress factor for under 3s - 6-9 under 2s at most is better.

I would also go with a childminder for a baby. It is really difficult to do under 2s care well in a nursery setting - not impossible, but very hard and usually achieved with fewer babies, more space and more staff than a private nursery is able to afford. Children's centres/Sure Start nurseries are usually better.

Childminder will be much more likely to go out every day and babies need to bond with one person.

I too would suggest you look at CMs.
Whatever the size of the babyroom, fact of the matter is, in a Nursery, they will be - er - in the baby room (!) all day except when they get outside.
With a CM, it will be much closer to a home life, with visits to toddler groups, shops, parks, the library, whatever is going on in the community.

Just a thought - did the 15 number get mentioned as that being the numbers they have at the moment, but some only do 3 sessions or whatever, so they aren't all in at once ? I don't think I've ever seen more than 9 in a baby room.

My DS has been at his nursery since he was 7mths old, he's now 4. Even when he was a baby they took them out and about, they have a small garden, (which they spent ages in) away from the big kids large garden, but they also went out for walks to see nearby boats & horses, visits to the country park etc and further afield as they've got older.
Most of the gardens have looked a bit grim this year due to the lousy weather (our nurseries is a washout due to recent flooding), but there's although looking drab right now usually looks great.
The baby room at DS's is considerably smaller than the rest of the nursery which is huge open plan but it's cosier. At his they rarely stay in the room all day as they eat with the other kids in the dining room, use an adjacent space for split activities etc.
I'd go visit again but tbh I thought with nursery that it was gut feeling that decided it for me.

Are you sure it is 15 babies all day, every day ? Or is it that they have 15 babies enrolled, but they are never all in at once?

DS 's nursery has reasonable inside and outside space, but they also go to park, playing field, duck pond, woods etc at least once a week

they also go to park, playing field, duck pond, woods etc at least once a week
That just upsets me so much, the thought that a small child would go out just once a week ( and a parent thinks that's ok!!). All the children I have ever known would be bored rigid. They need to go out every day.

The kids, babies included, as DS's nursery are out everyday except in extreme terrible weather but even on rainy days they go for a jaunt out and some fresh air.
The big kids love rainy days as it's the best time for jumping in muddy puddles a la Peppa pig
The best way IMO to judge a nursery is not by prescribed ideas but do the kids seem happy, healthy & safe. Get that right and the rest generally follows.

It must have been 15 babies over the week, not all at once, thinking about it as there definitely weren't 15 cots.

I agree about getting babies out every day and not just for a whiff of fresh air or in a buggy. It's about them experiencing nature - and I don't mean in a hippy-kindof way, but bugs and mud and rain and everything else that nature chucks at us. A concrete courtyard doesn't cut it for me. Plus the babies were wandering past the screen into the messy room and continually being (gently) picked up and placed into the furthest corner to prevent them crawling that way again. Judging by how active my LO is proving to be so far, I suspect she would attempt a commando style escape up and over the courtyard wall given half a chance!

I'll stick to my gut feeling and give this nursery a miss. Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.

Moog They may well go out more than once a week, but DS only goes 2.5 days. They have a field with a big wooden jungle gym and veg garden, wood etc and a hard surface hard with bikesand ride ons. I am really not concerned that DS does not have opportunity to get out!

Moogster - It absolutely depends on the individual setting. You cannot say a childminder is better and I would not say a nursery is better and I own my own nursery!. Some childminders do nothing with the children, some nurseries do not go out with the children.
Go view a few different types of setting and find what suits you best!
At my nursery the babies, toddlers and all children are out every day in all weathers! Ofsted commented on our last inspection how lovely it is to see babies outside, as she very rarely sees it! Although my nursery is rather good ;-)

I chose my CM for this reason. She goes out every day with the children to groups, the library, the park, the grocers in the village.. all the places I would go.

However good the nursery was (and I have a really fabulous one right next to my work) I couldn't get my head round the idea of DS only seeing the inside of the nursery the whole time I was at work.

Nursery live, your nursery sounds great! A pity it's not one of the ones I've visited so far.
I share yourview ebdteacher about being inside.

Another question I have is how do CMs manage babys naps? Seems to be more straight forward in a nursery setting but that a CM would find it harder to keep to LOs routine. Is this the case?

I think it's easier to stick to babies' routines if you're a cm, you have far fewer lo's to consider!
My 3 are all havinga sleep at the moment. TBH, they seem to gradually morph into having the same routine, ie. out and about in the morning, back for lunch, then they all sleep for roughly 2 hours.
if lo's need a sleep in the morning as well, they tend to fall asleep in the pushchair whilst going to playgroups etc and get their powernap then, likewise if they need a snooze mid afternoon, they'll sleep through the school run.
I do like it when they all get to the sleeping for a couple of hours at lunchtime though, as then I can tidy up, get dinner erady for the evening, but most importantly. faff about on MN for a bit! ( and it soulds cute having 3 snorers in the room with me)