Would you consider this a good nursery?

[Madreamer]

I visited an outstanding rated nursery this morning and found it a bit underwhelming. Would like some views on whether Im expecting too much -
It is described as an outdoorsy nursery, but I found the outside play area quite small, no soft play, children were quietly playing indoors at a table with raw rice and boxes. No staff interacting with them. The kids were not interested in the visitor either (me) and didn't smile. The looked at me once and continued with rice play.

The food menu had loads of variety but they couldn't tell me if the fish cakes/wedges were made from scratch. Regarding daily activities, I was told they customized play per child's needs but struggled to give an example. Am I being PFB? What other questions should I ask to determine if they are good?

A small outdoor area wouldn't bother me much - the kids are tiny, after all. Soft stuff would need to be kept inside to stay clean, too. Also if the kids are engrossed in what they are doing I wouldn't expect them to be too interested in a stranger.

However the rest of it would concern me - the staff at ds's nursery are always talking to their small colleagues and will relate details of what different ones are into for hours on end.

My key concern was does a child who cries get rapidly cuddled and comforted and encouraged. Ds's nursery met that and the staff convinced me they knew each child as an individual and would treat them as such - it had only a 'satisfactory' rating. The local Outstanding nursery didn't, and I wouldn't have sent ds there ever. The third nursery I looked at was OK, a bit chaotic, with a Good rating.

Can you look round another nursery to compare?

None of them were crying so hopefully that means they were happy? DS is many times more boisterous than the kids there were. I don't want him to change because the staff don't let him blossom naturally. I'd have to move to be close to this nursery, so It needs to be worth moving for.

They only have to be outstanding on the day of the inspection. I worked in a nursery that I graded as "shit". A month after I left they got inspected and won an outstanding grade. They knew what they should do but only did it on inspection day, they also cancelled training for the trainees so had extra staff, and they got lucky.

An outdoorsy nursery with little outdoors space is always going to have problems. The children ignoring visitors might be because they were so interested in what they were doing they couldn't stop and talk. No staff interacting with children could be a problem, or maybe staff were getting other things ready for when the children had stopped being interested in their current activity. The activities question they should have been able to answer, but most nursery staff are not that good at their jobs. I'm sure the staff did know if the food was cooked from scratch but didn't want to say "No"!.

Have a look at what the nursery has put out for children. Are the pencils sharp(ish) and usable? Are the toys broken? Are the puzzles complete puzzles? Are the books torn? Basically check to see if staff think about what they are doing rather than doing it without thinking.
Ask members of staff why they work with children. "I dunno really, I just do" would be a bad sign.
Ask about staff turnover. High turnover means the staff think the nursery is poor, or that the managers can't pick the right staff.

Hope that helps.

(I should hire myself out for nursery inspections.)

I'd definitely ask about how children are comforted (my top priority) as well as how they are put to sleep for naps etc, what systems there are if your baby needs a particular medicated nappy cream etc (even if this isn't actually the case it's a good indicator of how well organised the nursery is!)

I'd be looking for a good range of messy / outdoor activities as evidenced by lots of painting on the walls and plenty of muddy wellies everywhere

I was really put off one nursery which had a very tasteful selection of paintings artily framed on the walls. DS's current nursery has new paintings stapled up every week, they paint and draw every day as well as some mad escapades with shaving foam, cornflour gloop, clay etc! And the staff are really cuddly, friendly and know all the kids as individuals. I feel comfortable asking them stuff and they don't read off a written report at the end of the day when they tell me what DS has been up to.

Now that DS is verbal he talks about his keyworker and the other staff all the time I'm really delighted with it. Haven't even looked at their ofsted report, couldn't care less TBH.

I agree with a lot already mentioned. Also suggest bringing your child with you to visits and tours, particularly for 2nd visits on places you've already vetted. You can learn a lot by how the staff interact with and take an interest in your child. My husband would come with me to 2nd visit, and look after the baby and let her play with toys in the age appropriate room. I would get the formal tour and he'd get the more informal chats with staff during the playing.

If you didn't feel comfortable then it's not the nursery for you; whether it's good or not is therefore irrelevant

I saw messy overalls around so do think they get lots of play. I probably should do a second visit with my son. Tbh, I thought the staff didn't understand my questions, had other stuff on their mind. Unfortunately I can't seem to find a nursery I like, so will have to compromise in some way.

What makes you think its an outdoorsy nursery?
You should have been asking about the daily routine. Most places follow one, story time, outside play, free/guided play etc

My friend recommended it as an.oitdoorsy nursery.
I did ask about routine, they have a set routine for eating, sleeping, etc but didn't have set outdoor times. They do about 1.5hrs outdoor each day. The toys were all clean, kids were all busy, good signs I.suppose. DS is 20months was offered a place in the 2/3 yr room, is this normal too?

Some really good suggestions there, Thx.

2-3 year room sounds like what ds's nursery call Toddler Room - the age limits aren't hard but depend on vacancies and the readiness of the child.
Presumably there is no vacancy in the under-2s room (so nursery is well subscribed, but check), OR your ds is reasonably physically confident for his age and has some words and they think he'd fit in best there, being a bit too mature for the other babies.

In contrast my ds stayed in baby room until after his second birthday despite most children going up around 20 months, as when they first had a space, he was still bursting into tears if a larger child came within a foot of him! Then there wasn't a vacancy until his birthday in Sept when lots of children moved up - he'd been allowed to play with Toddlers as special treats for a while so when they did his first settling in session he refused to leave! They checked the staff ratios and let him stay.

So if they explain why your ds should be OK with older children, I'd be happy, but if they just shrug and say take it or leave it, I'd be concerned.

They haven't seen DS actually nor did they ask any questions before offering. And yes they have a waiting list and I wasnt expecting a place until April, but it has come thru earlier.

I would be careful about putting him in 2/3 group , especially as they have not met him.

I think he will be fine in that setting as he is quite big and has a good vocabulary. Im concerned though that they weren't focussed on his needs through it all.

Hmm that concerns me that they want to move him up without meeting him.. They have probably overbooked the babyroom which is why they offered you the place with the 2-3's.
I think you should definatley visit again with your child and let him interact with the other kids. See how the staff are with him and if you still don't feel comfortable, don't send him there.

Sounds like a wonderful plan, I'm going to call them first and get answers to my questions, following that visit and make decision. X

If they put him in the 2s room, ask how they are going to ensure ratios are met. A 20 month old has to be in a ratio of 1 adult to 3 children, even though the ratio for 2 year olds is 1:4.

The staff not understanding your questions would put me off. Working in Early Years is (should be) about more than just putting out paints and changing nappies - they should understand what they are doing and why in terms of planning and activities that follow children's interests.