Unrealistic expectations?

[Shimmers]

Just wanted to share a recent experience at ds's nursery. Ds, 33 months, is moved to a new room every 6 months. The keyworker in his current room, where he has been since end of September, has constantly told me ' he hasn't had a good day' when I pick him up.When I ask her to specify she tells me that he runs around, doesn't always sit down for storytime, and has occasionally hit when he has wanted a toy or resource. Last week, I asked to meet formally, with her and manager to discuss his behaviour to see what strategies we got come up with to help him. I was amazed, when I asked her if she could tell me anything positive about my son, when she said, Ummmmmm' looked up and for about a minute paused and said, he plays well with other children but and then started on the negative again!!!! I know children can behave differently when they're not with us but the keyworker has always painted such a bad picture of him that hubby and I were so worried. When I asked the keyworker if she could think of anything else positive to say about him, she said she didn't understand the question!!! The manager stepped in and as she interacts with all of the kids in the nursery, she was able to share some positive comments. In the end, the manager said that she would make some formal observations of him and get back to us (as I asked if maybe he was ADD). After a couple of days, she came back to us saying that ds had been playing very well with others, was very loving and said lots of other positive things.

We have asked to change his keyworker and the manager has agreed as I really feel that the keyworker really didn't connect with him. The manager also felt that some of the activities, such as sitting down time were just too long.

I feel bad for making a fuss and changing his keyworker (especially since she won't even look at me now) and DO want to support my son if he has got genuine behavioural problems but also feel that expectations for toddlers to be perfectly behaved are just not realistic. I want to be accepting of my son's true personality but I also want him to be in a supportive nurturing environment where he can learn to behave appropriately but where small steps are also celebrated as well.

Sorry to rant. As Maureen Lipman used to say, 'It's good to talk'.

you have done the right thing for your son so stop feeling guilty about hurting that keyworker's feelings. I am amazed that she could 'blame' a toddler for not meeting her shallow expectations.

It does sound like the keyworker as you say 'just didn't connect'. How many children are there in the group of children to how many staff? Also how recently did he move? I ask because if the your son is having problems with the rooms expectations it could be because he is feeling a little unsettled and with a bit of support will settle nicely later. In my experience the change in day nursery between 3/4 is the hardest. The expectation is much more demanding and if he is still in the stage and the staff/child ratio drops so staff have less time to allocate to each child. Also, this is just a personal rant, day nurseries have a tendancy to cut ratios to the bear minimum and if you have a lot of children in the group who are very young, or have special educational needs it has a knock on impact on the group as a whole.

I think you have done the right thing and further I would ask for a daily diary to be made. I would do this because it makes sure they help him settle and support him with the things he find difficult rather than just allowing it to continue. Also, again a personal opinion, if a person has to write down what they are doing they will make sure they consider their approach and ensure they use positive reinforcement rather than reacting to events.

By the way does he do the activities on offer? How is his speech?

He is still very young and I would expect a 33month old to sit for any long period and occasionally hit when he doesn't get what he wants. Especially if he is not getting to attention for the positive things he is doing.

I feel for you. DS1 has been at playschool since sept 04 and up until they broke up for the summer hols this year I was either ignored or all negative aspects of his behaviour were pointed out. the child they constantly described did not sound like DS t all, it was very upsetting. Then the supervisor left for pastures greener and her deputy took over. Mostly positives now. Maybe your keyworker is just a miserable hag who doesn't yet understand that kids are all different, all play differently, all interact differently, they just need time. Stupid woman!

Shimmers - you didn't make a unnecessary fuss and did entirely the right thing for your little boy. A little [shocked] actually at the key worker

I have a similar problem. There is one woman at ds nursery that always has something negative to say. "ds was a bit naughty today", "ds didnt share very well". I was so disheartened that I posted on here about it.
But now his new key worker (they also rotate) seems to adore him and has nothing but praise!!

I wouldnt worry too much. You ds sounds like a perfectly normal toddler. I think that if he has behaviour problems you would notice at home

or even, doh!

Shimmers I think you have handled this very well and hope that things improve with the new keyworker. Hopefully the manager's observations have reassured you. I also wonder if the keyworker has been taken to task by the manager following your meeting hence her current attitude.

Shimmers, well done, you have done really well but it can't have been easy. It is so difficult when nursery seem to be describing a different child to the one you have at home! I would just say, YOU would know if your son had real behavioural problems, because you would have sensed it at home. It makes me so angry when parents start to be undermined to the degree they actually think their child might have ADHD or something!

Well done. Keep strong.

Shimmers, agree with earlier posts that you have handled this perfectly. I admire that you have take proactive steps to get to the bottom of issues. It is right to change your ds' keyworker as she sounds like she has made up her mind about your ds' behaviour. None so deaf as those who will not hear, IYKWIM.

Just wanted to say I am experiencing similar issues with dd who just turned 2 and moved into a "ig girls' room" with 2+ to 5 year olds. The staff ratio has dropped dramatically. My once cuddly child is now rejecting cuddles at nursery and has been reported to me as biting and scratching other children for the last 3 weeks, even though she is not aggressive at all at home. I was almost in tears after a carer told me she doesn't play with other children and just goes off on her own. But then, the next day, I grilled another carer about dd's behaviour and was told she likes playing with 2 other children and is the first to join in activities. So I have come to the conclusion that the perception varies from carer to carer and is coloured by dd's behaviour on that day.

Also, nursery use time-out on dd for her transgressions which I don't practise on dd at home. And I know she reacts v. badly to social exclusion because she is, as I said, very cuddly.

Your ds sounds lovely and very normal. More credit should have been given by the ex-keyworker to your work-in-progress.

Totally agree with other posts that you have done all you can and should do as a mother.

I hope your DS is getting on well with his new key worker.

Shimmers this makes my blood boil-your ds is not even 3 years old yet!!! what the bloody hell do they expect!
I had a similar situation with my ds's nursery-they had much the same critisism of him all the time-it is wearing and can alter the way you view your DS (already you are wondering about behavioural difficulties) but what you are describing is a typical almost three year old boy THEY DONOT WANT BLOODY CARPET TIME-they want to run around and shout and make a mess-
Nurseries are often staffed by underpaid people with no proper training in what a REALISTIC AGE/GENDER expectation is!
AAAAAHHHHH

My ds is now in reception-I can finally see him as the normal outgoing boy he is and whilst he can be a real handful-the school have made me take a more realistic view of him!

good luck-stick to your guns

On a course (for childminders) that I did a while back, we were looking at how written information about children should be recorded. We should always start with the positive - how well child can do jigsaws, be kind to others etc. If there is negative information, it should not be written as "XXX can't sit quietly, can't concentrate" etc., but worded in a much nicer way (but it's too late for me to think of an example!)

It may be a bit blunt to say, but child care workers are sadly not very well paid and therefore don't tend to attract the sharpest people, and most often are young women who have no children themselves. I think this results in poor communication and quite a skewed and uninformed perspective sometimes.

I have had some issues with my child care centre recently and I get very frustrated at the lack of communication or ability to see the big picture of why I become concerned about certain incidents at the centre. I also feel like the centre has me over a barrell as places are hard to come by and I don't want to change DS1 unless I really have to as I don't want to upset his routine and sense of security.

Also to add to that point, alot of young women go into the job thinking it is just playing with the children. Their isn't the realisation that it's hard work and requires, to do the job properly, thought and intelligence. Further the government is putting so much pressure on childcare workers to complete various kinds of paperwork. Nurseries don't generally pay staff to do this work so it is normally either done when they could be playing with the children or out of hours for no money. Given that most childcare workers get minimum or just above its taking the pee really. Cleaners often get paid more, with less responisbility and less training required and certainly no expeactation to do work for free.

Blueshoes - I am quite shocked that your nursery put 2+ in with children up to 5. No wonder you have seen a change. I know my DD (2 next week) would be more intravert with older children around her.

Our nursery has room for 0-1, 1-2, 2-3,3-5. I think DD will struggle with the move to 2-3 after christmas, as 1-2 has loads of cuddles going spare, but I have noticed that 2-3 is not quite the same atmosphere.

I am glad that your DD has 2 other friends to play with, so I am sure so will be ok after taking some time to settle in.

Shimmers, good on you, you did the right thing, I am sure many people have pondered about saying things to nurseries but never actually done it so well done.

Thanks for all your replies of support. It has made me feel less guilty about changing ds's keyworker. Ds has been with his new keyworker since this Monday and every day I have had reports that ds has had a 'great day'. I know that this may not always be the case but the most important thing for me is that his new keyworker seems to really like him and her job- I can't put my finger on it, she just seems more sincere and REALISTIC with her expectations and has a sounder knowledge of child development.

It's sad that so many of us have experienced similar issues at such crucial points of our children's development.

blueshoes - ds's playscool takes from 2.5 to 5yrs as well - all together. it's taken ds a year to settle in.

Shimmers, so glad to hear that you've matched ds with the right keyworker. It sounds like it's going to work out for your ds.

Although dd had a keyworker until she was 2, it did not really count for much because all the carers chipped in - but ... there were always those I preferred - because of their gentle manner and enthusiasm for children. Like you say, can't put a finger on it, but you just know it. Somehow so much more genuine. So I always try to chat with the nice ones about dd, to encourage their interest in her [oops, pushy mum alert!].

With reduced staff ratios in dd's 2 to 5 year room and no key worker system, I am still trying to suss out which carer is the best fit for dd. Luckily one has rotated from dd's previous room to the current one so there is a friendly face. It is hard for dd being the new kid on the block and also she is the tinest in the class, notwithstanding she has turned into a thug . RudolphMabel, 1 year to settle in is a long time. Hope it was not too traumatic for your ds. Jamese, I am not thrilled about the huge mix of age groups. I know the nursery does separate the 3-4 year olds during some parts of the day to go to a separate room, leaving the 2 and 5 year olds together (not sure about the rationale). You're right about the older room not having quite the same cosy atmosphere. Oh well, hope dd finds her feet soon.