Mum who opened organic children's day nursery and organic nursery school needs your opinion before she opens more!

[organicmum]

I am a mum of a 5 year old who was so horrified by what I saw children's day nurseries feeding my child (who was raised on breast milk, followed by as many organic foods as I could find), that in direct response to this my husband and I created a company in 2004 -- Organic Schools Limited with the sole purpose to open organic children's day nurseries and organic nursery schools in the UK. Our first, Hedgehog Hill Organic Nursery School, opened its doors in Greens Norton Northamptonshire on 1 February 2005 to much media fanfare (from the UK, Europe and USA), largely thanks to what Jamie Oliver was doing for children and school diners!

We are planning to open the next two organic day nurseries in Oxford and Milton Keynes starting next year; we have been asked by a major publisher in London to write a book about our experiences; and have been approached to open a national chain of organic children's day nurseries by investors. We therefore are in desperate search for the viewpoints of mums and dads on:

1. what exactly are you looking for in a day nursery?
2. what is the most important factor in making your decision: is it quality of food, quality of care, closeness to work, closeness to home, educational factors, cost, or that gut feeling you get when you go into a day nursery or nursery school and meet the managers and staff???

and 3. What is it you dislike most about the children's day nurseries and nursery schools you have seen so far?

Background on how we provide nursery care for children differently from the norm:
Our organic children's day nursery not only provides organic food and drink. At least a dozen nurseries scattered throughout the country had been doing so since 1997 and we thought that was great, but thought "organic" could move beyond food in terms of caring for children. So in 2004 we developed an "organic curriculum" as well that includes all of the OFSTED recommended Birth To Three Matters and Foundations Stage education, but also includes regular sessions of ballet and modern dance; introduction to French Spanish and German through songs and rhymes; yoga; baby massage; musical instruction and drama (all taught by qualified instructors and at no additional cost to the parents).

Our organic nurseries have indoor gymnasiums for active play rain or shine and give up to twice as much space to children than the recommended OFSTED requirements.

We also operate with eco-friendly policies and teach children how to contribute to protecting the environment and the protection of animals through lessons and school practices like recycling, growing organic vegetables in their own garden, walking buses to school, etc. And have made a point of introducing our children to some lost country arts like felt making, spinning, pottery and basket making.

We pay our nursery nurses more than the current market so we can recruit and keep only the best. And the first quality we look for in staff is: are they gentle, approachable and child friendly!!! Then we look at qualifications.

But before all of this, we make sure every child feels safe, confident and happy. Because of all of this we have an organic children's day nursery that has practically filled in the first nine months of being opened.

Our first organic nursery is nearly full so we do not need these forums for advertising (which would be silly any way, as most of you mums reading this would live miles away). 'Til now, we have done everything based upon our own opinions and those of our friends and families. We think "organic" is about much more than food and drink -- it involves the whole child including their minds, education, play and first experiences and quality of care. Our philosophy is: "growing healthy minds and healthy bodies", and we think this should start from birth.

We need to hear from mums and dads everywhere, so a chain of healthy day nurseries and a book can actually meet the needs of parents and children instead of becoming just another "chain" putting money before children!

Thanks for helping by giving us your opinions in this forum - which has already been incredibly helpful in helping us to stay on track with what mums think and want and need for their children.

Should have explained that better. I'm sure some nurseries have native French speakers leading their 'French Classes.' But what I mean is that those tutors are only there for the lesson time and the child is (usually) unlikely to hear any French at nursery otherwise.

Same as teaching traditional crafts. Almost everywhere you take a child teaches them about weaving for example - firstly through weaving with paper, then perhaps with weaving sticks. But it's one project which lasts about a week or a session or two with an brought-in expert, not a skill learned thoroughly.

Firstly I appologise and this may end up being a little bit long!!! Just previewed and it's huge so going to cut it down

love the sound of things that you do with the children, space to just 'be' is a great idea.

Language is better learnt by immersion (agree bubble99) but little ones learn language far more easily so think it's a great idea what about having a language morning? where everything is spoken in that language? (might be too expensive though)

1. I am looking for some where that my child is cared about individually - that people connect with him. Want somewhere that he can exposed to as many different experiences and ideas and points of view as possible.

2. The factors that influence my choice..
   Quality of care
   Activities of all description - whats planned and how much that translates to what gets done. (can be very different)
   Food provided
   Educational factors to a degree - but feel that it would be lovely if children are given space to develop at their pace. So wouldn't want there to be milestones set.

The gut feeling about a place and the people when you walk in.

3. My dislikes and these are from personal exprience of 2 places so far and think our experiences may have already been mentioned in this thread . But here we go...

Lack of feedback to parents about the day and how it's been spent and lack of communication between staff and directors giving an un coordinated and unprofessional atmosphere and lack of organisation

Changes being made to business structure without at least informing parents before the changes are made, would prefer some sort of parent involvement in some of these changes - ie stopping daily diarys, changing menus,new staff - should be introduced to parents some how

Not having a seperate sleep area, expecting child to fit in with the nursery set sleep routine

Music should cover all genres and instruments encouraged, demonstrated and played

No respect for the nurserys toys, books and equipement shown or taught

Oh goodness have just previewed and it's huge I'm so so sorry.

I would say please please hang onto your initial reasons for setting up the nursery and keep that in mind at all times - may sound really stupid but put up a 'mission statement' or something similar to remind everyone what you are out to achieve on a daily basis, and be accountable. It is so easy for this to get lost in amongst everything else and then loose the essence of what makes your nursery the lovely place that it is. (speaking from bitter experience of DS nursery).

Good luck xx

drat missed out - when singing nursery rhymes and action songs why make up actions? can't you use sign language instead? gives children another new skill

My biggest fear is that my ds will be fed eggs or nuts. Ds is not highly allergic and seems to be alot better than he was a year ago, but then i dont feed him them so it would seem to be.

My reason for this is that i left him in the creche part of the state nursery where he will be going in a few months with specific written instructions not to give him nuts/eggs where given and another parent had brought in cakes even though the info was written down and they knew him, he was given the cakes. I came in and asked how much he had eaten (gave packed lunch) and they said oh he ate that and a chocolater cake, i looked and said that he shouldnt have had that and they look at me as thought i was mad and then another parent said very patronising ' isnt he allowed chocolate'? adn the nursery people said sorry and cross referenced the details and then said 'ah yes it seems we were told'. I kicked off at them but whatwas more annoying what the course i was doing was about allergies and anaphalytic shock and how all the helpers/teacher had been told about this and trained.

The other thought would be about not challenging/praising him enough as he is very bright.

In less than a year we have had to learn to cope with every imaginable food restriction. For the reason you mentioned, we let children bring food in for special reasons like birthdays, but send it home with children at end of day so their parents can decide whether or not they want them to have it.

The intro to French is fun and not serious and the over 2's love it. So far they have all taught their parents some of the songs and nursery rhymes -- so the parents come in singing them too (which is great for a laugh when they have never spoken the language before and completely slaughter the pronunciation).

(The way to tell if costs are being passed on through the fees is to make sure the nursery offering extras does not charge more than all of the other area nurseries.)

I'm a bit worried about the fear of chains concentrating more on profits than kids, and I have always had the same fear. But Montessori seems to have done it right through franchise. Though individually owned, they usually have a good reputation, (although you can get some not so great ones too).

I'm a bit concerned about how many of you don't want your child's learning structured and regulated at all, as the powers that be in this country are starting to formalize and regulate "learning through play" from birth. Which means your child still gets to play, but the nursery nurse must guide that play a little more into areas of specific learned-skills that can be measured and proven as "evidence", or the nursery risks being told they are not doing enough to meet the standards. This can mean more time spent documenting what was achieved through play, rather than just immersing yourself into play with the child.

Surprised about the uniforms debate. Never thought they mattered much. And I'm still digesting loads of comments on food. Seems like the organic wave currently hitting nurseries is more important to the owners staying "fresh" and with the latest trends, than of key importance to parents. Although I think, especially if carried over into the home and primary/secondary school environments, it will all benefit children immensely. The cleaner the food for all of us the better. perhaps restaurants will be the net to jump on the organic band wagon!

Message withdrawn

definitely fresh foods, organic wouldn't tempt me tbh. chickens? french? more impressed by kind, loving people so the children treat the place like an extension of their family life. and learn stuff too, but enjoy it mostly.

I viewed several nurseries when I was pg with dd, and the one I chose appealed to me right away for the following reasons -

first and foremost, the woman who showed me round was very competent, friendly, and explained everything really well. This was important because as a new mum, I didn't have a clue about anything. Baby massage, yoga etc would have scared me off, tbh.

The staff were busy occupying the babies and toddlers - in the baby room, one staff member was singing to babies, things like that, others were being cuddled, I got the feeling that each baby was being looked after properly. They also did painting, water play and things like that with the children. In the older rooms the children looked like they were happy and thriving. Walls were decorated with pictures and photographs, rooms were light and airy, toys were developmentally appropriate, with separate areas for eating, sleeping etc. Staff all properly trained, and training continues with day release and specialist courses. Proper record keeping which was visible to parents.

Food - have to confess, I didn't even ask about this, just whether they would take expressed milk - I mean, I hadn't even got a baby yet, never mind one that ate solids. But for the record, yes, they took expressed milk, and (organic) food is cooked on the premises.

Activities: they do painting, singing, dancing, crafts, go to the park, to the library, museum, they do French and musical instruction with trained instructors once they are three, as well as lots of other games and activities. They have indoor things like slides, climbing frames, ball pool, trampolines, can't think of anything else.

And to be honest, I think what dd's nursery offer is perfectly adequate, and I wouldn't really be looking for anything more. The children are happy, the staff seem enthusiastic and really caring of the children and I am happy to leave my dd there in the mornings. I can see the point of cultivating vegetables and plants, but the danger is that their day is so overloaded with organised activities that they don't have enough time for freeplay and you know, the old staples like doing jigsaws, reading books, dressing up etc.

Sorry, forgot uniform. The staff have blue tops, which look very smart, worn over their own trousers. I think it is a good balance between being overly formal and too casual.

Dietry restrictions - dd could't tolerate cow's milk and nursery were able to accomodate that. But again, this wasn't something I asked about or anticiapted as a pregnant mother looking round it.