Ooh, quandary. Take place at 'OK' nursery, or hold out for 'good'? What are priorities?

[herbaceous]

I've got the classic nursery quandary. I want to send DS (21 months) to nursery, two days a week, now his childminder is moving away. He seems ready for lots of more interaction with kids his own age.

I've put my name down for three near home, in Walthamstow. Two get 'good' Ofsted reports, one gets 'satisfactory'. I love one of the 'good' ones, and am OK with the 'satisfactory' one, but it seems a bit crowded and scruffy, with 16 toddlers in a room not that large. And a mad schedule, with lunch at 11 and tea at 3. However, when we went to visit, DS loved it, and had to be dragged away kicking and screaming.

Now, the only one to have a place is the 'satisfactory'. The staff seem lovely, and there's a big outside space. Do I hang on for the other one (which has more equipment, better outside space, and seems less shambolic), or take the place I'm offered, and keep on the other one's waiting list? What is it that really matters about a nursery?

The most important thing is how the staff interact with the children. IMO the main difference between a good and a satisfactory is the paperwork. Ofsted inspectors don't spend a lot of time actually watching the everyday stuff, it's all in the office with the manager looking through the paperwork. It's all about how good the manger is at 'talking the talk'.
Another good indication of a good nursery is recommendation. Do you know anyone with children at either nursery?
Go back and have another look around if you are not sure.

does either of the nurseries have any ofsted actions or complaints on the ofsted reports and if they do i would always pick the one who had a minor paperwork action such as noted staff use suncream but parents have just given verbal okay not signed consent than one that has lots of more important actions/complaints such as staff rations, staff qualifications, accident reporting issues, food saftey and general health and saftey ones that should cause red flags

the best choice is the one that your ds did not want to leave as he is the one who will be there so he should get the final say so to speak

i'd look at the turn over of staff too,

Thanks ladies.

I asked about staff turnover at both, and it's pretty good. Most of them have been there at least three years.

The 'good' one has had complaints to Ofsted, but were apparently a past member of staff stirring up trouble. Apparently. The 'satisfactory' one does mainly seem to not get 'good' on pretty minor paperwork quibbles, plus one broken door or something.

One thing that does bother me is the toilets. The cubicle walls are only three foot high, or so, which is fine, but there's a big window in the wall of the toilet room, so from next door you can see them all going to the loo. When it's just staff there it's fine, but what about when parents are picking up? Is that odd? I suppose if it was bad, Ofsted would have said something about it...

I suppose it's the old adage 'I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member' thing - the one with vacancies I feel must be less popular for a reason... Others round this way have waiting lists as long as your arm.

past staff members often have the inside information so the allegation could be based on actual information

toilets arent meant to be that tall to help staff with children who are toilet training and so if heavens forbid the door jams staff can get children out without incident but if it makes you feel uncomfortable then it may put you off going there but again your ds is the one who will have to deal with it so his preference should be at least half the decision

I've had a similar situation. Both are classed as good but one, for me, seems just... Cleaner, more pro active, access to outside all the time etc. Other one is a little tatty, staff aren't terribly engaging, access to outside is restricted to a morning and afternoon session... But I had to move DS very urgently from previous nursery and only the tatty one had space. I've got him down to start the better one in sept.
DS actually seems very settled at tatty one, had made a friend etc. Location-wise: it's very convenient. But the "pretty" one has appointed a manager who is an ex inspector and, after extremely bad experience with previous nursery, this fact makes me warm and fluffy inside. She said that they have unrestricted access to outside as boys developed better that way etc. She really knows her stuff...
But... In 2.5 years time, when DS goes to school, he'll need to go to tatty nursery's after school club... Argh!!!!!! So if I move him I must be very tactful :-)
I would say: try better one out again, ask to spend an hour there. If you gut says "this one is best" then wait for a space. I wished I'd had the luxury if time :-(

I second what other people have said about looking at how the staff interact with the children. I don't think its as black and white as saying the only difference between a good and an outstanding nursery is just "paperwork", thats not true in my experience. I would also say that a good manager is not someone who just deals with the admin, they should know the children, their staff and be involved. The enthusiam / desire for good standard of care should come directly from the manager through the staff.

My experience is also that the scruffiness is not necessarily an indication of the standard of care - I think like most new parents / parents to be I had no idea what to look for when I first visited nurseries. The first nursery I ever visited was quitre tatty, some of the equipment had seen better days and I crossed it off my list straight away to start with.

I eventually accepted places (for my 2 year olds) at the well-to-do / popular-with-the-wealthy-families nursery which was pristine, lots of new equipment, not strict but quite regimented. Much as my children were well cared for, thats all I felt they were - the nursery was thriving on its reputation (with the "you should be pleased you've got a place here" attitude) with no genuine affection or input for the parents or spontaniety I suppose. I went back to the "tatty" nursery, really watched how the staff interacted with the children and put my name on the waiting list. 6 months later we got places and we switched nurseries - I think it was the best thing we did. I really think that the nursery staff there genuinely loved my children - their keyworker was sobbing the day we left. It was so much more interactive with parents, lots of outdoor space, messy play, less regimented (the nursery provided waterproofs for each child and they'd often go out playing in the muddy puddles if it had been raining, or they went for an impromptu walk to the ice cream farm on a hot day etc) the children loved it. All I'm saying is tatty can sometimes be good, there is a difference between good and outstanding or good and satisfactory that is more than just admin. Good luck

How long ago were the Ofsted reports written? They are just a picture taken at the time and the actions to improve will probably have been completed by now. I bet the door is fixed! You could always ask that question of the satisfactory one before accepting the place. I agree that it is the staff interaction that makes the place.