Discipline in a nursery.

[Junglebirds]

My 3yr old child has been disciplined at nursery.

I was only told about this as my child ran towards me very upset and sad and i could see had been crying. My child gave me a hug so i asked the teacher what had happened. I was told that my child would not listen when called in from play and instead called another child to also not go back in. My child was put on a table and isolated for 2 mins. I was told that if my child did not listen as had been there long enough, it would happen again but for a longer time.

Previously my child had said no to something the teacher wanted my child to do. My child was picked up and moved to the place where the teacher wanted my child to be.

As i agree that any child should listen to the teachers, is it a bit harsh to practice disciplinary behaviour at such a young age or am i being a bit too sensitive? Is it right for the teachers to behave in the way they have done when clearly my child was very upset by it. I can see how it would affect my child's confidence if it were to continue.

Your views and advice will be very much appreciated.

slim22 I am being perfectly realistic and this is what is expected of all competent early years practitioners. Reflecting is looking at what the child is doing and working out why he is doing it. Clearly this is not about sitting in a corner for five minutes with a bit of paper, it's thinking on your feet and finding better ways to manage the situation.

If I had to report back to a parent that their child had been in time out and had been physically put somewhere against his will I would also have been reporting what I thought may have triggered that situation and how I was going to manage it better in the future. I would also be following Ofsted's g

I'm not talking about an idealistic world I'm talking about the one in which I work as a childminder and senior nursery practitioner.

But Alison, surely that situation is a classic and you should already have a blueprint for it.
what would be your response?

"If I had to report back to a parent that their child had been in time out and had been physically put somewhere against his will I would also have been reporting what I thought may have triggered that situation and how I was going to manage it better in the future."

Okay, yes. Child was in time out.

Why? They didn't want to come in from playtime.

What can you do in the future? You give the children warning, which is standard in most places anyway. You also don't just place a child in time out for not listening once. 'My child would not listen when called in from play' implies that there were several attempts.

Reasoning with the child is fine but how do we know that the nursery didn't do this? If a child won't listen to reasoning you can't have a staff member tied up for 30 minutes trying to coax one child in.

Miscommunication on the part of the nursery not to say these things but the reaction itself wasn't disproportionate. Positive reinforcement isn't going to work when a child intentionally breaks an established rule - one which they are presumably familiar with and have previously followed.

There are two separate incidents here anyway - one in not coming in from play, the other is physically moving the child. We don't know the circumstances of the previous incident - the child may have refused to move out of the way of staff moving equipment which put them in danger. Or they may have been persistently asked, persistently refused to comply and warned that if they didn't then they would be moved. As a nursery practioner surely you know that there are times when you absolutely cannot have children going where they want to because you need them somewhere out of harm's way. Of course this may not have been the case but it's neither reaction is automatically harsh or disproportionate. Personally I think time out is better than physically moving a child but sometimes needs must.

You're being precious. Teach your child some manners and then the nursery staff won't have to.

You can't have a blueprint for any situation. You have to take into account what the child is doing outside, what they need to come inside for, what led to the refusal, the child's personality, the child's needs, their relationship with the member of staff, how they were approached,.... the list goes on. The point is that if you've had to put a child in time out something has gone wrong and you need to be explaining what happened and why both for your own benefit as a practitioner and for the parents.

Similarly if the child has to be physically placed somewhere against his will you should be asking yourself how it came to that and how you could manage it better in the future and you also need to explain the incident to the parents. It would also be good practice to make a written record of the incident and get the parents to sign it.

If the staff didn't feel it necessary to explain either incident to the parents that suggests that these methods of behaviour management may be the first port of call rather than the last resort which I would find concerning.

Wise words from Al1son. The same approach is taken at dd1's pre-school & as Al1son says it does work when applied by dedicated staff who are tuned in to the children.

My nursery bent over backwards to be totally lovely and supportive and understanding of my son's misbehaviour. I rather wish they had been slightly firmer. But we all come to these things with slightly different views on discipline and behaviour management.

I think its great that nursery workers are now thinking about context etc. when considering bad behaviour not just writing the kids off as naughty little sods or whatever

However my son is in a nursery too, where they do things like go out on walks to the park. I wouldnt trust them to do that with him if I thought that they couldnt control him, if i didnt know that he would listen to them and obey pretty much immediately.

He has only been on the 'thinking chair' once since he started, for hitting i think, but has seen other children go there as well as its quite clear to him that bad behaviour and not doing what he is told has consequences.

I just think you can always distract a child, I just think at three years old this was harsh, I mix with lots of nannies and most use time out and I think it is very overused and does not work.

Children like to please so lots of praise works with me and all my charges are no generally well behaved.

I agree with most, the 'punishment' seems fine to me. They should do as they are told.
I do however think comparing it to what is happening in the middle east is possibly the funniest (in the most ridiculous way ever) thing I have ever heard.... yes... yes it is EXACTLY like the middle east..

Maybe the staff should have encouraged the other children to not share toys with the child for a while. A toy embargo. Maybe set up a nursery behaviour organisation where the member could vote for other sanctions. Whatever they chose to do I really think that child shouldn't be allowed to develop any kind of nuclear capabilities. They need to check the sand tray regularly for any kind of launchers/mobile labs etc.

@ TiggyD you had me going then for the first sentence!

It makes you realise how ludicrously we behave as adults.

I'm quite shocked, actually. Naughty or thinking chairs are punishment by humiliation. Putting a child on a table is dangerous practice. Read Jane Eyre to see how Charlotte Bronte describes being forced to stand on a chair in front of her class. And this nursery does it to 3 year olds!

Not standing on it though! Sitting on it quietly I should imagine!

Standing or sitting, it's still saying "look at this naughty child!" to the whole nursery. They should be ashamed of themselves!