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Nurseries

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Original poster

Discipline in a nursery.

40 replies

Junglebirds · 05/03/2011 00:24

My 3yr old child has been disciplined at nursery.

I was only told about this as my child ran towards me very upset and sad and i could see had been crying. My child gave me a hug so i asked the teacher what had happened. I was told that my child would not listen when called in from play and instead called another child to also not go back in. My child was put on a table and isolated for 2 mins. I was told that if my child did not listen as had been there long enough, it would happen again but for a longer time.

Previously my child had said no to something the teacher wanted my child to do. My child was picked up and moved to the place where the teacher wanted my child to be.

As i agree that any child should listen to the teachers, is it a bit harsh to practice disciplinary behaviour at such a young age or am i being a bit too sensitive? Is it right for the teachers to behave in the way they have done when clearly my child was very upset by it. I can see how it would affect my child's confidence if it were to continue.

Your views and advice will be very much appreciated.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Panzee · 05/03/2011 00:28

This sounds ok to me. A short time out to remind him he needs to listen to instructions.

poodlerockin · 05/03/2011 01:14

Sounds OK to me too. They have a time out chair in DDs nursery, I'm fine with that.

ben5 · 05/03/2011 01:18

sounds ok to me to

nailak · 05/03/2011 01:25

how else would the teachers ensure that there is not chaos and the kids are safe?

purepurple · 05/03/2011 07:49

Sounds normal to me. What should they have done? Left her outside on her own?
I don't know how many children are in the group, but the ratio is 1 adult for 8 childre. If there were 16 children that leaves 1 adult with 15 children while the other fetches your daughter in because she wouldn't follow instructions.
Children should be compliant and be able to follow simple instructions at 3 1/2.

babbi · 05/03/2011 07:50

You are being very precious, your 3 year old should be doing what an adult asks. I would be delighted that the nursery recognises that discipline is important.

Bucharest · 05/03/2011 07:55

OP you are using the word discipline in its newfangled modern sense, to mean punishment. The nursery, quite correctly, are using it in its original sense meaning "to educate".

S'Ok.

gorionine · 05/03/2011 07:57

I agree with the majority, at 3 a child should be able to do what an adult (in the context of nursery demands obviously) asks them to do. I think if your DC had not understood the demand they would have been shown what to do/where to go/how to sit but if they just refuse to do it they have to be "timed off" for a minute or two.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 05/03/2011 08:20

Collective living requires us, occasionally, to follow rules. One of these rules is probably that you come in from playtime when you're called. If you don't then there should be a meaningful consequence. Clearly the consequence of being separated from the group was meaningful to your child, otherwise they wouldn't be upset, and hopefully they'll remember the experience next time it's time to come in.

It's not a disproportionate response on the part of the nursery IMO.

TiggyD · 05/03/2011 20:44

Your child not only disobeyed the staff but encouraged other children to rebel. That's what's happening in the middle east at the moment.

They did the right thing. A child needs to think that if they do good, good things might happen and that if they do bad, bad things will happen.

CPtart · 05/03/2011 21:26

"such a young age", they could be at school next year?..many more rules there, need to learn that failure to follow instructions has consequences! I would be supporting the nursery in their practices so as not to give mixed messages to your child.

Al1son · 05/03/2011 21:28

Although many will think this is acceptable and what most parents will do it is not considered good practice in the county where I work.

Time out should be used to allow a child to calm down and regain control. It is seen as a positive strategy to distance a child from whatever triggered their behaviour and allow him or her time to think.

We are not allowed to put a child in time out. It has to be the child's choice to go.

When we were first told this I was appalled but having learned to use positive behaviour reinforcement I have not felt the need to put a child in time out for four years. This includes when I've been working in a toddler room and pre-school room in a nursery and while working as a childminder.

There were probably more effective strategies available to the staff if they had thought about it.

Meglet · 05/03/2011 21:40

Agree with Al1son.

My dc's nursery wouldn't have had such an OTT response to cheekiness. They only use time-out for full on naughtiness (hitting, pushing etc).

exoticfruits · 05/03/2011 21:40

It may come as a shock to start with, but at 3 yrs they have to understand that the world doesn't revolve around them and they can't do as they like.
Once she realises there are rules she will be much happier-they like clear boundries.

LadyBiscuit · 05/03/2011 21:45

TiggyD - are you seriously suggesting that the people uprising in the Middle East against years of living under dictatorships and repression are akin to a 3 year old having a strop?

BertieBotts · 05/03/2011 21:47

So she wouldn't come in when she was called - could they not have just picked her up and carried her in? That would have been the end of it if it was my DS - but then I don't run a nursery with (presumably) large amounts of children and several staff. I expect they need to have set one-size-fits-all discipline techniques. If you're not happy with these kinds of methods maybe a smaller setting would have been more appropriate? It was one of the reasons I chose a childminder over a nursery.

TiggyD · 05/03/2011 21:49

If Mubarak had put a few more people in time out he would still be in charge of Egypt.

Bucharest · 06/03/2011 11:25

Quick send SuperTiggy to the Middle East!

cinpin · 07/03/2011 21:49

I think in a few years we will look back at time out and think it was cruel, seems well OTT to me , thats why I do not work in nurseries and do nannying instead they are only three do they need to get that upset?

Tiggy what a weird thing to say.

SnapFrakkleAndPop · 08/03/2011 05:16

Cinpin I have to say I disagree with that. Isolation, whatever you call it, has been a discipline technique for centuries and is very effective. It's sometimes overused but if you break a clear rule, like not coming in from playtime even when you know you must, and can demonstrate your awareness and understanding of breaking that rule by calling someone else to stay and play with you, then removal from the group is a proportionate and effective response. There aren't very many methods of discipline which can be used effectively in large groups.

As a nanny it's possible to give much more individual attention, the child in question clearly wanted to stay outside and play which a nanny might have been able to accommodate or they'd have been able to take the time to reason it through.

Personally I still think time outs have a place in nannying, for example for kicking/other physically threatening behaviour etc., as long as the parents agree.

nooka · 08/03/2011 05:31

I think that most children should be able to cope with being punished for doing something that they know is naughty. I don't think that this affects confidence, but it might make your dc less likely to stay outside when he/she is being called in. It might not of course (this sort of thing never worked very well for my ds, although would have been very effective for my dd).

So no, I doubt it will (on it's own at least) affect him/her in a negative way. However I can understand that being met by a very upset child was upsetting for you, and it doesn't sound like perhaps the nursery staff managed that very well.

Your child will have to comply with the rules at any childcare setting, and sometimes he/she will be upset by that. It's also possible that she wasn't hugely upset, but that seeing you made her weepy about it (my dd was inclined to do this - as long as she didn't see me she could cope with many things, but the sight of mummy somehow set her off).

slim22 · 08/03/2011 06:01

FGS, arent we just overthinking this a bit?

If you think your child is not ready to socialise why are YOU being cruel and sending him to nursery at such a tender age????

they did absolutely nothing wrong. what would the positive parenting response be, am curious?
Are we going to start bribing them into complying with the most basic trivial set of rules?

Al1son · 08/03/2011 09:33

No slim22 you explain and praise.

Used properly it is a far more effective method of behaviour management than punishment. It is however hard work and requires the staff to be motivated and engaged with the children.

That is the part where some childcare settings appear to fall down. The teacher in the OP should have been reflecting on why the child was saying no and not cooperating rather than using her greater strength and punishment to solve the problem.

littleducks · 08/03/2011 09:42

I think it's fine, presumerably if the time out time will increase it will go up to 3/4 min max not half an hour or something.

I agree positive reinforcement is a good technique but I think there needs to be a fairly immediate obedience of instructions in nurseries for the safety of all the children and enforcing rules help to maintain that.

I have been in a nursery (to observe as a student not for work) and the small disobediances were ignored, which led to children pushing the boundaries, doing some dangerous things and then being harsy punished as it needed to be stopped immediTely I think that us far less fair on a child.

slim22 · 08/03/2011 09:55

Alison, that is in an ideal world.
"The teacher in the OP should have been reflecting on why the child was saying no and not cooperating rather than using her greater strength and punishment to solve the problem."
Are you dreaming?
Honestly, i am not trying to be antagonistic or rude, but "reflecting?" , you really think on the spur of the moment she can do that for something as trivial as I want to stay outside and play and forget about all the other kids?

Please don't let the OP think that.

OP, socialising is about boundaries as little duck just explained. Either you accept the system or you wait until they are ready.

My DS (now a thriving Y2- cum athete-cum hooligan) was the meekest thing ever and had to pull him out of nursery because he was nowhere near ready. DD at 2.5 managed to get herself into the 3/4 year old montessori class because she was so stroppy!

Again, they enforced a very valid simple rule. I think YABU

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