Advice please re my dd's nursery. Feel so sad.

[QueenNeurosis]

My 1yo dd has been at the same nursery full-time since she was 5 mo. right next to my place of work and I would pop back and forth to bf throughout the day. Have got to know the staff and other babies so well. It is a chain but the service has always felt very personal.

Following dd's birthday last week she has moved up to the 12-18 mo room next door to the babies and thing had deteriorated throughout the week to the extent that I feel that all the trust and relationship has gone. Sorry to sound overdramatic but I feel totally devastated.

Dd had a few visits which had gone fine but I was told afterwards, not prior to each visit. I wasn't sure where to drop off on the first day as I hadn't been shown around. I had to ask who her new key worker was - the staff member went to find out, only to find out that it was her. They dropped a nap without consulting me so she howled all the way home with overtiredness. There are different staff members in the room each time I drop her off and collect her and I don't have a clue who anyone is - I introduce myself and ask their names but without exaggeration it has changed every day. My dd has howled every time I've handed her over and burst into tears each day when I've collected her. Because she never normally cries and will play well on her own, she's been alone every day that I've collected her whilst the staff cuddle the crying babies (understandably.)

I had to pop down during the day yesterday and it was so hectic I could see dd being knocked over and looking so small next to all the toddlers - she can't walk yet and because she's not a crier when she's knocked over, it just happened... Without going into huge detail, there was a nasty accident yesterday which, when they showed me what happened, could only have done so if she'd been unsupervised for some time.

I requested a meeting with the management today who weren't able to fit me in until Monday but when I did outline my concerns they were really upset and apologetic and the staff were really attentitve when I picked up dd tonight. I feel so sad. DO you think these concerns are valid? Is there any point in letting the nursery address these issues?

Sorry for the huuuuuuuuuge length.

QN

Yes these concerns are valid - and these issues need to be addressed. It sounds like they have pulled themselves together and have done something, as they were attentive when you went to collect tonight. How was dd when you collected tonight?

sounds to me like they didn't consciously drop that nap - but that the communication is so poor between staff that the new keyworker didn't know your dd normally has that nap.

the whole thing sounds like lack of communication all round. I do feel for you and understand why you feel so sad. at least you have the weekend to think about things before meeting with them on Monday. Do they have a parent communication policy, or policy for 'transition' i.e. moving from one room to another (and ultimately to big school) and how this is supported? It is a big step for children!

Its important that you hold on to all the detail and your concerns so that you can clearly express each point on Monday and get some concrete answers and explanations.
is she moved up with her friends, or is it totally new? Could she go back to the other room till she is older? I'm confused by why she is with crying babies - do you mean others her age? She's not too old for you to consider making plans to move her somewhere else. I can totally absolutely understand why you feel /are so upset. Is there an ofsted report on this section of the nursery? Do you have a parent support group there or other parents you can get things off your chest with otherwise this will bug you all weekend... Are there any policy docs from this nursery chain about what they are intending to do and what your expectations can be at this age, i.e. how they will support this age group etc?

A little mortified by all the typos in my last message. Am really upset!

I'm going to go through all the documentation over the weekend but I know that the move up is company policy; always the Monday after the child's first birthday.

By crying babies I meant that there always seems to be one of two babies having a cry when I go in and these are the ones who get cuddled. Dd is quite a content kid so she always seems be next to the staff member but not being cuddled
iyswim.

I think you hit the nail on the head, SugarSkyhigh; total lack of communication.
Noone actually spoke to me about her moving, just a letter to say it was happening.

Dd was having tea when I arrived and was quiet so on her own but I was told
that she had been put back down with˙ the babies for a few hours and they were quick to tell me what a wonderful day she'd had. Dd burst into tears when she
saw me like every other day this week and demanded a v long bf. Not done that on collection since 8 mo, maybe?

Thanks for hearing my concerns; really hard to be objective!

No idea what's up with the formatting on my PC.

Some nurseries keep them with the babies until they are two, so if yours is moving to a second stage baby room at 1yo they should still be following baby staff ratios i.e. 3 babies to 1 member of staff. check that its happening especially at handover points and at lunchtime. I agree that the ones crying will get more attention but it is actually good that your child is not crying as she will be coping. She is to old to be putting on a stiff upper lip so if she was unhappy she would cry. Actually from 5 - 12 months is only 7 months in the baby room and she may be a longer time in this room so you need to be sure in uour own mind that its the place you want. Nurseries can go through a bad patch and you may reserve the right to change your mind. You won't need to go in and breastfeed so maybe don't need to have her right next door? I would focus on making a good relationship with the key worker - find out what her schdule is week by week and make sure if you can that you pick uo before she leaves to get feedback from her and if thats impossible is there a book system where they put feedback and you can ask questions that way?

I'm sorry that you have had such an upsetting week - quite a shock having been so content with the room your DD was in previously.
Hopefully it is just a communication issue. From my experience, when things are going well at my childrens nursery I don't feel the neeed to check up on everything or make sure that a routine is being followed. However, sometimes there is a blip or change in room, and I realise that a parent's input (in terms of ensuring the move or change goes smoothly) IS required. But often I don't realise this until there has been a glitch (and I or my children have been upset by it).

Please don't lose faith in the nursery. Just pro-actively communicate with the new staff and engage with your DD's new key-worker. Voice your concerns about her being the "littley". I'm sure they will respond.

I wouldn't wish her to stay in the baby room - in a few weeks she will probably take a huge step forward in what she plays with and who she plays with, and you will be glad you let het move up. It's the first stage in allowing her to grow up and learn a little independence (tho some non-nursery mothers would howl in dirision at me saying "independence" for a 1yo)!

Best of luck with next week.

Sounds like you have quite a few concerns, I would also have a few too from what you say in your post, I would raise the following issues:

1. Lack of communication major problem.
2. Key worker should really be assigned prior to settling in and be getting to know your child before move up. Do they not have a transitions officer who co-ordinates staff, parents, children?
3. Automatically moving a child each birthday is not good practice imo, children are individuals and all develop at different ages this should be taken into account (or at least I think so)
4. I'm presuming the accident was involving your child? Why could the management not see you until Monday, pretty bad form I think
5. children should be supervised at all times, sure its in the requirements somewhere, maybe a kind Mnetter will do you a link.
6. Surprised that you havn't had a look around the whole nursery, its important to look at all areas and good practice for the nursery to show you without asking.

Nurseries do have glitches and not everything is perfect 100% of the time, see how well they handle your concerns and what they propose to do to ensure proceedures are improved. Sounds like you were happy in the last room but standards have slipped in this age group.

Our nursery is like this too
tbh I just thinks it's par for the course
we chose a nursery knowing there would be lots of to ing and froing of staff, that changes of rooms were involved
we could have chosen a cm for one to one care
they get used to a new room eventually but it is unsettling changing key workers every year

You could ask the new key worker if you can take a photo of her home and talk to your child about her or take a photo of them together? In our nursery each keyworker also has a buddy and the two staff run a group together so that there is someone else special to your child from amongst the staff. there is loads of good practice out there if your nursery was to go looking for it.
I am feeling a bit worried about the accident. I hope you were asked to sign a book about it and that they have proper procedures. But the last thing I would want to do is to give you extra worry. I agree with 'atworknotworking' that this could just be a glitch; maybe they have got staffing issues this week and they may explain somethings to you on Monday.

Re-reading your post: I agree, I'd want to know why there were so many different staff in the room over the week. That would always be unsettling for a child - particularly bad if that child is new to the room.

But still, don't lose faith in the nursery : you've had 7 months good experience of it and I'd be surprised if one room was excellent and another was awful.

I agree, try to give it a second chance but remember that you do have other options. Her happiness is more important than loyalty to one nursery.

I really appreciate all of your responses. Thanks so much.

Re the accident - she wasn't strapped into her chair during breakfast and she managed to wriggle out, topple over the chair and smack her head on the floor. They called me at work and I immediately came down and stayed with her for an hour. It was during that time that I felt that the other children were much bigger and more boisterous than dd. The accident was recorded and I had to sign a form but I don't think she could have tipped over a chair within seconds... she must've been fidgeting for a while. My overriding concern is that because dd is pretty laid back and never really makes a fuss it's a bit taken for granted that she'll be ok to play on her own or left til last - that's what I perceived when I was there yesterday. I do live in the real world, however. I wouldn't want 1 to 1 care for her and I hope I've been flexible and supportive of the nursery and staff.

The room she's moved into is short-staffed and the leader is on leave this week so probably another reason why they should'vt had a new baby this week. There has been a number of agency staff in and members from other rooms.

The thought of moving her, despite everything, really upsets me. But they can't change the fundamental set up, can they?

Thanks again, QN

I think not being strapped into chair is a bit of a worry as it should be automatic. When you say short staffed, what exactly do you mean? there are legal ratios for the number of adults to babies and the nursery must have the correct ratio or they are operating outside of the law. The ratio is 1:3 for babies but i think that's for babies up to the age of one. i'm not sure exactly when it changes and what it changes to! In fact that is one question to ask the management!
i think i would want to know what has caused the staff absences(illness or inability to recruit?) and how long it is likely to continue.
The nursery sound as if they have always been good so hopefully they will have a plan of action to resolve the issue. If they don't have the correct ratio, then the management should come into the room and cover until the problem is resolved. I would look at the staff turnover and the average age of the staff.
I had a bad experience with the nursery I used for DS2 and I wish I'd taken him out sooner. There was a high staff turnover(basically because the owners didn't treat the staff well and were more focused on money making than quality of care)and all the staff were young girls of about 20 and under. Although they did their best, it did lead to problems.I would say that a mix of younger and more experienced staff would be appropriate for looking after children so young.
i would say follow your gut instinct. If you do feel you need to move DD, try not to worry. Moving my DS (at age 2) was the best thing I ever did. He adapted to the new nursery in no time at all, and was much happier (and so was I)!

I think you are being a little bit dramatic. The crying is typical of the clingy phase they go through at this age. A change in staff will be far more traumatic at 1 because they understand more and she is used to her intimate baby room. This will likely settle down in a few weeks once she gets to know and trust them. Lots of children of one have bigger siblings doing far worse! She is learning more independence and tbh at 1 she knows she gets a reaction from you, detects your anxiety and goes with it.

I wouldn't worry. Give it a bit more time, a week at this age isn't a long time to settle in. I had loads of tears when dd1 went to pre-school from nursery for similar reasons.

Lots of tears from dd btw, I managed not to cry - she tried to leg it out of the building having spent 2 years in the nursery quite happily next door!

Not really sure what to say about everything else but I would be worried about the chair and the fact ti toppled over. In my opinion the children should never be left alone when eating.

Hope it all goes ok on Monday.

Very sorry to read about the details of the chair toppling. But they surely had a softish floor surface and thank goodness she is ok. very good that they did call you in, and not just tell you later on. The staffing issues that you know about are important since you can now ask very clearly what the set up is for the next two weeks.
Our nursery would move a set of children up at the same time and have 'moving up weeks' and prepare for them. It does sound like the nursery needs to learn from this , that they should have given your child a better first week. The advantage of a group moving together is that they can plan in for the new entrants to the rooms below...I am sure that if your baby room has been good then you will work this out and it will get better. Ask if there are any bigger children about to be moved out as that may change the situation with very new small people and bigger ones quite a lot.

Sorry , for me the not strapping into a chair is a deal breaker. How on earth staff taking care of a just turned 1 year old cannot do this simple action that should be automatic for a child that age is beyond me and I would lose all faith in them.
The other stuff is far less serious and could be worked on , but TBH I would remove her on the strength of that.

Well I would check out about the chair thing and at what point they will put her in smaller lower chair where she will not need strapping; does she need to be in that high chair again there? she may remember and refuse. They could be using smaller lower chairs at little tables for the 1s-2s age group...

Obviously I can't comment on your specific situation, but I found my DS really upset about moving in to the new room at nursery at that age. He was so happy in the baby room, but once he moved up, he'd start crying as soon as we started walking across the car park. I was devastated and felt I had no idea who the staff were, DS burst into tears as soon as he saw me and seemed to be forever in the accident book.

I went in to speak to the staff and they spent time talking me through who the staff were, how long they'd been there, and what their qualifications were. She took into account my concerns about communication and said she would pass things on and look at what changes could be made. I left feeling much more positive and over the next couple of weeks, I really noticed him settle in betterand respond more to the staff, who have made a real effort to talk to me more when I pick him up (although he's still in the accident book all the time - he's just that kind of toddler, I think!).

Any nursery can have weaknesses, but I think it's the way they respond to you pointing them out that tells you whether you want to leave. What did you like about the nursery before? Has it really changed that much, or is it that your concerns are heightened because of the way your little one is reacting at drop-off and pick-up?

In the end, trust your instinct.

Personally, I wouldn't use a nursery that relies on agency staff. I have done agency work myself and it's a nightmare.

Sorry - not been online all day. I really do appreciate everyone's advice and comments. I also appreciate that I sound quite dramatic but I can't stress enough how happy I was with the baby room and I felt so confident going to work knowing that dd was in her element.

My sadness comes from the fact that the quality of care seems so much lower. The staff in room 1 seemed older and more professional.

I saw a few nurseries on Thursday and Friday and I've been calling friends over the weekend for recommendations so we'll just see how the meeting with the manager goes tomorrow.

A big thanks again and I'll let you know how it goes!

Nurseries should be following EYFS and part of this is to ensure smooth transitions for children (ie move from baby room to toddler room) and also communication with parents (ie letting you know who her key worker is). Arrange to have a review meeting with them and see what your feelings are after that.

Oops! Sorry - you are having a meeting with the manager. Good luck.