Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Neurodiverse Mumsnetters

Use this forum to discuss neurodiverse parenting.

ND-ers, pls help me (not ND)

8 replies

daffodilsandaisies · 18/05/2025 13:12

DH and 2 of our kids are ASC/ADHD/both. Some serious MH issues for all 5 of us in the household, at least partly due to late diagnosis and not finding ways to work together. Things are VERY hard and explosive.

i want advice on a particular problem that I can’t seem to get anywhere with - mess and tidying away.

our dance goes like this:

agree a plan for an outcome (eg no post on the stairs for more than 24 hours; clear work surfaces at night; sideboard not used as a dumping ground)

is stuck to for a brief period (sometimes days, more often hours)

I remind

Outcome remains unachieved

I remind again

Things start to pile up

I remind again, w more irritation and emotion

Something is done but things pile further

Rinse and repeat, as things get worse until in a rage I clear everything, and then inevitably something gets hurt or lost and I am THE BIG MONSTER BADDIE and they are all angry and self-righteous.

i am damned every which way, it seems, unless I just do all the jobs for everyone, all’ of the time. It’s making me so so miserable - the mess, the way we all lose things, and the explosions.

I get that I’m a part of this dance, but what do I do, to get to an outcome that allows us all to function?

NB - everyone else in the family has a room of their own to do what they want with apart from me (usually I have a 1x1.2m ‘study’ but even that has been colonised by the one doing GCSEs).

OP posts:
Jimmyneutronsforehead · 20/05/2025 14:39

I think to challenge this you need to understand executive dysfunction and particularly in ADHD what role dopamine plays in this and how the brain processes information differently.

I don't know if you've heard this analogy before but if you're stood over a fire, and someone tells you to put your hand in this fire, you're able bodied you can physically get up and put your hand in this fire, you still wouldn't put your hand into the fire because your brain is telling you it is dangerous, and it is painful.

To an ADHD brain, a task that doesn't spike dopamine is interpreted by the brain as pain or danger. Of course they don't feel pain, but the brain says this task is so boring, it is painful and so I'm not going to let you put your hand in this fire.

Are your ADHDers medicated? Because the medication should help with dopamine boosting.

The ADHD internal reward system works on novelty, urgency, and interest. That means for an outsider you might see them do a task whileever it is a new task for a while, then stop and you think oh my God I'm having to pick up the slack again, or you might find that they do it again if you shout and raise your voice or lose your shit because that is urgency, or you might find the will only fulfil a task if it pertains to a hobby, ie. I need to put this basket of things away because I need the screwdriver at the bottom of this basket to do the thing I want to do.

So then we get onto executive dysfunction.

Executive dysfunction is the dysfunction of our executive brain functions, and it affects our ability to keep time, so we might not be able to do things in a timely manner because we experience time blindness, it affects our ability to start tasks, even if it's something you really want to do but even more so if it isn't rewarding, it affects our ability to switch tasks, so if you need to put the car in the garage but before you can put the car in the garage you need to move the boxes and before you move the boxes you've got to sort out the little bedroom so there's no point in doing anything at all because it's all too much and it's overwhelming, and it affects our ability to complete tasks.

With autism especially, it's hard to be motivated by an internal reward system, there's often no sense of satisfaction for getting things done, especially if it deviates from plans, routines or schedules and instead it makes us anxious, which means we can't regulate ourselves and therefore we lose executive function.

Going back to ADHD, people with ADHD have poor object permanence. Ie, you put your GCSE revision things down with the intention of using them later, someone comes along and tidies up because they need that space, and suddenly GCSE revision does not exist anymore. It's original placement was a visual reminder that it needed to be done, and now it's gone it will not get done because there are tasks that need to be started, switched and completed like finding where it went before you can start the task of revision.

Neurotypical systems of putting things back where they came from so you know where they are don't work for neurodivergent people and in a house with multiple neurodivergents and competing needs it will understandably be chaotic.

This is where shit baskets come in.

Everyone gets 2 stair baskets. 1 stair basket goes on the stairs, the other is empty and left away for rotation. They can put what they want in that stair basket because eventually they'll need it.

When that one becomes full, you put that in their room, and you swap it for the empty one. If they don't empty it, you do, you just dump it on their desk. Their rooms are their problems if they want to live in a shit hole, let them. That solves the clutter problem. If you want to you can put a larger shit basket in each room for dumping the stair shit baskets into.

Then next you need to work out systems that will help each person start tasks. It has to have instant gratification to be impactful and it probably won't be the same for everybody. Even as an adult I have to admit I found it hard that I never learnt how to start some tasks. Not knowing where to start was so overwhelming to my nervous system that I needed to seek dopamine, but then would not be able to switch tasks. This is especially hard if you are both autistic and have ADHD. I'm talking so overwhelmed by responsibilities that you can't even take a shower level of inability to switch tasks.

Lastly you need to find a way to pick your battles and live with what you can't change.

These are genuine disabilities. It's not a lack of willpower or laziness. There can be learned helplessness, which is why it's important each person understands why they are the way they are and tries to find systems that work for them, but it's not just a case of taking the neurotypical folk for granted. It genuinely impacts on our abilities to complete daily living tasks.

See if any of you are entitled to DLA or PIP, and use that to fund a cleaner or hire a laundry service or anything that can make your life a bit easier.

GreenFressia · 20/05/2025 19:18

Yes you can really capitalise on the 'systems thinking' brain that often comes with ND here.

What specifically is the shit that is dumped? Where is it coming from?

You basically need buckets to capture the shit at the location where it either comes into the house, or where it gets discarded from the body. If that means lots of boxes then so be it.

So it doesn't require cognitive effort about what it is or where it goes.

One thing I personally have found really helpful in nudging towards change is buying a Dynamo (other brands are available) labelling machine. So you can label containers based on their contents. It helps with reinforcing what goes where.

daffodilsandaisies · 22/05/2025 15:44

This is really helpful thank you both so much.

i know I need to be understanding; what is proving so difficult is that they (esp DH) don’t seem to realise what a horrendous impact it all has on me, and how cumulative it is.

ADHD adult is medicated but has deep habits (which work well for him, until I explode).

and - theres an extent to which any idea suggested by me is by definition no good - which makes making progress super difficult as he can’t see there is a problem…

OP posts:
Jimmyneutronsforehead · 22/05/2025 16:27

I'll say this gently, but you don't have to tolerate ineptitude from a spouse just because of a disability and it's OK to have your own boundaries about what you're willing to tolerate and not allow them to be crossed.

Adults, disabled or not, are responsible for themselves. If he can't or won't commit to doing his fair share, and is not willing to find his own work around or employ in assistance then you don't have to be his disability aid at a detrimental to yourself.

Your kids, that's a bit different. Sometimes they still can't do things and they're still learning how to navigate a world that is extremely hard for them and it's your job as a mum to understand how their brains work and why they do what they do or don't do what they don't do but when you got married you agreed to be a wife, not a skivvy, and I'd bet a pretty penny he's capable of finding solutions and systems to reduce the burden and claim responsibility but hes content with his learned helplessness.

I know I am difficult to live with because of my disabilities but I also know it's my job to not force someone else to take full responsibility for my shortcomings which is why in the absence of physical ability and a lot of mental blocks, I financially make up for where others would be breaking their backs to support me and I might not be able to give an equal contribution to my relationships but I can sure as heck do my best to make it equitable.

The things I mentioned in my previous posts like the shit baskets are a wonderful system for teaching your kids where to start, I forgot to mention things like body-doubling which would be the next step for making sure your kids can start tasks or have quick and easy access to person to person support without you relinquishing your peace and giving up and doing it for them, but although this might help your husband too, it isnt your job to be his mother as well. That's an additional emotional burden you did not agree to take on when you said your vows.

I re-read my last post and it was filled with good intentions but I am a girls girl first and foremost and I think I've unintentionally sent the message that you've to put up and shut up and that's not how I meant to come across so I'm very sorry.

Chloe793 · 22/05/2025 16:54

If everyone else likes the messy sideboard then I say why can't there be a messy sideboard? Do you think OP that if the 4 other people in your house including an adult like using the sideboard to stick their things on, you could just learn to accept it and be ok with it? It's not life and death after all, it's just a messy sideboard.

With the post I'd tell the others to leave your post where it lands and if they need somewhere to dump their post then don't do it on the stairs - do it on the messy sideboard. If their things get lost, forgotten about, broken or whatever on the messy sideboard then that is nothing to do with you.

Expect post to still end up on the stairs though and that you will have to remind them numerous times to move it from the stairs to the messy sideboard until the new routine sticks.

You might find that when they can't find their item on the messy sideboard or they forget about a letter that they needed to do something about because it was on the messy sideboard or their thing gets broken because it has all sorts of crap piled on top of it - then they may actually start to realise for themselves that the messy sideboard doesn't work.

daffodilsandaisies · 24/05/2025 14:32

the thing about leaving stuff messy is that it’s really stressful for us all, as it means things get lost… and that makes life more difficult and unpredictable for the ones who are fragile, and more difficult and exhausting for the ones who then inevitably have to sort the problem out.

i just don’t think that’s a functional answer!

Im quite stuck on what to do, as the things I try to do to help the kids are directly undermined by DH not doing them/arguing that he shouldn’t have to.

What I’m realising is that the last nearly 20 years has really taken a lot out of me and I’m worn out with trying to cope!

OP posts:
GreenFressia · 24/05/2025 15:44

Have a listen to the Clutter Bug podcast. She has ADHD.

thatsalad · 25/05/2025 21:47

I solved this by becoming a minimalist, things can't get cluttered or lost if I have very little things in the first place. I used the Marie Kondo method.
Alternatively, get a cleaner who is also willing to tidy.

The thing with ADHD is if you're looking for a method that will make the ADHDer be more tidy, usually methods work for a while because of novelty and then they don't anymore. The trick is to make adjustments which do not require us to be tidy, so like I said, minimalism, cleaner, and like it was mentioned above, baskets. I never tried baskets, but I heard a few other people say it helped them.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page