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Neurodiverse Mumsnetters

Use this forum to discuss neurodiverse parenting.

So sick of powerful men (and women) hiding behind their autism diagnosis

17 replies

Christmaslights24 · 06/12/2024 23:29

Apparently Gregg Wallace is likely to state that he could not help his "inappropriate actions" because of his autism. I am autistic (and yes all people are autistic in different ways etc etc) and I call bull. If your'e high functioning enough to have navigated life to the point you have had career, relationships and children I refuse to believe you didn't know what you were saying was offensive.

What I find much more likely was that Gregg's autism meant that he could not keep his innate prejudices to himself but blurted them out - as he's a poor masker - but don't blame autism for that, blame the fact that you have the antiquated views of a prejudiced dinosaur.

On a broader note so many people in the public eye - Brewdog CEO James Watt, Sia, now Gregg - wait until they are perceived to have done some wrongdoing before they "out" themselves, leaving the public with a perception that autism = unpleasant git (or worse). Which is why it has been so important to hear from Mrs Hinch, Christine McGuiness, Melanie Sykes, and most recently Nina Hossain (well done Nina!) sharing their diagnosis and showing that autistic people are a valuable part of society and can make significant contributions.

I know plenty of quietly successful autistic people who wouldn't dream of coming out as neurodiverse as they know the assumptions /prejudice they will face - and so the cycle continues; people only ever hear of the bad 'uns and think we are all like that.

Aim I unreasonable to think that if you haven't needed your autism diagnosis before now, it is irresponsible (and worse, lets down the next generation of autistic children who will continue to think being autistic is something to be ashamed of) to hide behind it when you have screwed up?

OP posts:
InattentiveADHD · 07/12/2024 00:43

Ummmm I don't know. My DS is autistic and really struggled growing up to see where the line was between "banter" and "offensive". He also did a lot of spouting offensive shit that other boys had said but in the wrong settings (not that it's ok in any setting, but he didn't understand, you don't say that to a teacher, vicar, whatever which other boys would have known instinctively). He was trying to fit in, copying others without proper understand in his attempt to do so, and misreading social cues and taking what people said literally. I had to do a lot of "teaching" and redirecting so he understood what was right and wrong and what was appropriate and what wasn't, and in different contexts. My DS is very "high functioning" but this is how his autism affected him (in part) at the time. He is not like this now because I worked with him to change it.

I can imagine if he'd been allowed to grow up with no-one correcting or challenging him, he might have easily have continued in that vein.

ND traits and the way they present are not always palatable and I don't think it's helpful to pretend that they are.

Having said that, this could be nothing to do with autism and he is just using it as an excuse now he's being challenged, but it does give me pause that what we're hearing is that he's never been challenged before! Perhaps if he had then he would have understood that his banter had very much gone well over the line. Who knows. You can't possibly tell from the information we have.

Circumferences · 07/12/2024 00:52

The sooner the hype dies down about this person, the better 😆

He's a dick, he's been a bit rude, he's clutching at straws now on being "ND" but at the same time, I'm suspicious why there's so much attention being given right now to some C-lister. I'm actually feeling a bit sorry for him. He's not exactly a Jimmy Saville or Al Fayed is he.

Mittens67 · 07/12/2024 00:53

It is the same old story of trying to excuse inexcusable behaviour with whatever the perpetrator thinks might work. Much like rapists, pedophiles and murderers whine on about their terrible childhood.
Cuts no ice with me. I have high functioning autism and a childhood which would make your hair curl but I have never wanted to hurt or harass anybody. In fact just the opposite because my own experiences of being treated like crap made me go into a profession where I could advocate for and with others who are marginalised and brutalised.
Wallace is a dead man walking career wise and if his wife has any sense at all she will be lining up her divorce solicitor right now.

OriginalUsername2 · 07/12/2024 01:21

Funny because Melanie Sykes is one of those that felt uncomfortable around him and is also autistic.

VeggPatch · 07/12/2024 01:35

I had a certain amount of sympathy. His persona - his "mask" - was built in the late 90s - early 00s when the lad - ladette vogue was in and there was a trend for men doing highly sexual banter with women ostensibly giving back as good as they got. I can absolutely imagine an autistic man not noticing that times have changed because that would require him picking up on people glancing at each other, the pauses after he speaks, the slight freezes, all the non-verbal communication that is just inaccessible.

Then I read that he had also engaged in unwanted physical contact and so I lost the sympathy I had.

username299 · 07/12/2024 01:42

IMO it's not about him, it's about a culture of tolerance around his behaviour.

If you can't help sexually harassing women and walking around the workplace nude, you shouldn't be working with other people.

He should have been sacked when his behaviour first came to the attention of the producers. At the very least, there should be a disciplinary process in place to nip it in the bud.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 07/12/2024 01:43

Aim I unreasonable to think that if you haven't needed your autism diagnosis before now, it is irresponsible (and worse, lets down the next generation of autistic children who will continue to think being autistic is something to be ashamed of) to hide behind it when you have screwed up?

I don't agree with this part because there are plenty of people who have lived a life of feeling they don't fit in, committing social faux pas constantly, not really "getting" work colleague/team dynamics, putting their foot in their mouths constantly, had relationships fall apart, failed at school, been unable to maintain friendships and/or friendship groups, struggle to socialise, and suffer greatly because of all that, and it's only when they are diagnosed, come to terms with the diagnosis, understand it, accept it, and can retroactively see why it explains a lot about their lives that they can begin to live in a much happier, more relaxed, and comfortable state.

It isn't about "not needing" your diagnosis. Some people do not or will not accept a diagnosis and live in denial. Some don't get diagnoses until later in life, some never do. Some people are fortunate in that they conform and function well enough that their diagnosis isn't always particularly impairing, so that gives rise to the notion that they have no "need" of it.

I've made this point repeatedly on here because there is a lot of understandable denial, but some autistic people, myself included, have a history of being perceived as behaving like an "arsehole" entirely because of autistic disfunction. Autism absolutely can be the reason for awful behaviour, but some people don't seem to be able to grasp the difference between the concept of an "excuse" and an "explanation". They are not one and the same thing. Autism can be a very present and relevant factor, so no, I don't accept that where and when Autism is pertinent it is always a case of "hiding" behind it when you have "screwed up".

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not believe that in Gregg Wallace's particular case all the things that are emerging are "explained" by Autism. Some of it, possibly. Inappropriate conversation topics that are, in themselves, not necessarily taboo topics but are inappropriate because of unfamiliarity with the recipient, or because they are initiated in an inappropriate setting is very much an autistic trait, but assaulting people, indulging in exhibitionism, and making clearly unwanted sexual remarks is just the sign of a creep.

The thing about a diagnosis is nobody needs one, until they do. When exactly does your autism diagnosis become "needed"? After all, it's a condition we're born with, so surely every autistic person will encounter a point in their lives where their diagnosis becomes "needed" when it previously was not, even if that is as early as the day they are born. There are a fortunate few individuals like those I mentioned earlier who get through life largely unimpaired, but they are still autistic, and strictly speaking, they "need" their diagnosis whether they believe they do or not because it is also a legal state, not just a condition.

Dash0Cal · 07/12/2024 01:49

I agree, op. Amazing that they can find the line when they’re talking to people more powerful than them. It’s only when the other person is less powerful that it’s a struggle, eh?

MrsTerryPratchett · 07/12/2024 01:59

It's so interesting that ADHD, autism, anxiety, MH and addiction always come out by harassing women in one demographic. Just one... men.

It's almost like the issue is actually socialisation, not any of the difficulties or disorders.

My ADHD girl doesn't sexually harass her peers. And I'm willing to bet never will.

I don't know why we're not honest and say, "there will always be an excuse for harassing women, always. We'll name it at the time but it's really; being a man".

Christmaslights24 · 07/12/2024 08:34

Thanks for all your responses, they are assisting with my potentially very black and white thinking on this topic 😂

Very interesting about the mask point and that he did not keep his learned persona current with the times.

Autism can definitely be a reason for social awkwardness / perceived “arsehole” behaviour (I’m certainly guilty of it but I do my best to learn and apologise as I go along) - I didnt mean to imply it’s always just an excuse - but I’m still not convinced this applies in Greggs case given he is is clearly very high functioning, and also engaged in alleged unwanted physical contact. I think when you treat the public like idiots and claim your autism meant you had no idea what you were doing wrong over a 20 year career in television, they get an unfairly skewed picture of what it means to be autistic, which is damaging to us all.

OP posts:
unclemtty · 07/12/2024 10:05

Verbal sexual harassment maybe, yes ND are more likely to be impulsive and inappropriate (pretty sure that could be controlled by most though) but the groping of all those women's arses?
How does that fall under ND?

There's a fair bit of ND in my family (it's rife!) so I'm reasonably clued up about it.
Never heard of a symptom/condition of ND being a sexual molester.

MrsTerryPratchett · 07/12/2024 14:14

unclemtty · 07/12/2024 10:05

Verbal sexual harassment maybe, yes ND are more likely to be impulsive and inappropriate (pretty sure that could be controlled by most though) but the groping of all those women's arses?
How does that fall under ND?

There's a fair bit of ND in my family (it's rife!) so I'm reasonably clued up about it.
Never heard of a symptom/condition of ND being a sexual molester.

And even if it is related to an ND, which it's not, accommodation for disability doesn't trump safety for women. You don't have to employ a gross weirdo who gropes people.

PeasfullPerson · 07/12/2024 14:53

Pleased to see this thread and the well thought out comments.

I’m fuming after reading that he will try to use his autism as, by the sounds of it, his main excuse.

So he has gone from being an ambassador for an autism charity, to throwing every autistic person under the bus, in order to save himself.

Perhaps he has autism and it was one factor in this, but as most autistic adults do not behave this way, there has to be more going on.

He would be better off taking some responsibility for his actions.

His first excuse was the demographic of the accusers, his second excuse is he has autism, which he apparently plans to portray in a way that reflects badly on all autistic people.

Well, as long as he’s OK, it seems that’s all he cares about, and that speaks volumes.

whatisforteamum · 07/12/2024 15:00

I'm going to respond to this as someone who is awaiting diagnosis and a chef who has worked in kitchen for 4 decades.
The culture is better than it was however it is still much more macho and sexualised than other industries.Ive had to really tone down any language so IMO
Why didn't the BBC do or say something yrs before.
They probably encourage the cheeky banter and didn't really try to stop it.
Ok the groping is something else.
The hospitality industry needs to catch up for sure.
Greg Wallace got stuck in cheeky chappy mode and no one stopped him.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 07/12/2024 15:10

How come that women with autism in the TV industry never seem to behave like this? That baffles me.

I think the sooner that Gregg is removed from publicity, the better. I don't accept his excuse, as PP have deftly pointed out, it's never with somebody more powerful than them, is it?

The BBC needs disbanding.

Oreyt · 07/12/2024 15:13

OriginalUsername2 · 07/12/2024 01:21

Funny because Melanie Sykes is one of those that felt uncomfortable around him and is also autistic.

Is she really?

Wow I know we are all different but I can't imagine wanting to be on tv all the time with autism. I hardly leave the house.

unclemtty · 07/12/2024 15:14

@whatisforteamum he isn't and has never been a chef though?*

I thought he was a greengrocer previous to his media career, then moved into TV etc.

I don't think filming/presenting in TV studio kitchens is remotely the same as actually working in a functional kitchen in hospitality?

I would imagine everything including the culture is entirely different?

*happy to be corrected on that because I'm not an expert on his career

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