Hi,
This post really jumped out at me and I felt compelled to join the conversation although I realise the thread is from May, so I might be a little late, but I feel some comfort in just being able to write my feelings down here.
I feel a similar way and I can relate to this, so it's really interesting to hear your take on things and your experience with friendships - especially female vs male friendships and how others with ND's cope.
I've struggled all my life knowing that I'm different and that something is different in the way that I learn, and think, and how I experience the world around me. I'm female and in my late 30s, so approaching this subject with my GP and getting an assessment for any kind of ND has been quite a difficult journey. I was finally diagnosed with ADHD earlier this year, which in some ways was a relief. I'm learning to be more aware of my thoughts and feelings, and how I interact with others and how it makes me feel. An initial diagnosis has been comforting. To know that some of my behaviours and feelings can be attributed to the way that my brain is 'hard wired' and I don't need to be as tough on myself all of the time about not fitting in is quite a relief.
My ND has effected every aspect of my life over the years, including work, family, finances, relationships and friendships. I have combined ADHD, and I can be forgetful and inattentive, with low moods. I'm very easily distracted, but can also be impulsive and hyperactive, which makes it hard to regulate my emotions. I suffer with anxiety and have a history of depression - all of which impact my everyday life on some level, so it can be pretty exhausting trying to keep it together and function in a happy, healthy and productive way.
My ADHD traits manifest themselves quite clearly in social situations. I often speak over people or interrupt others when they are talking. I find it hard to listen when people are talking to me directly and even though I so desperately want to listen to what people are saying, it takes a lot of controlled focus and practice to try and stay tuned in and to follow a conversation and not be distracted by other stimulants around me or let my mind wander.
My lack of focus can sometimes come across as though I'm uninterested in other people. I know this is an issue, so I tend to over compensate in social settings. I approach social situations with a 'game plan' often thinking about the conversation topics before hand, or planning an imaginary 'circle of action' which sounds strange, but it's all about planning which colleagues I can talk to or approach throughout the evening - and in what order. It's like building a safety net in my head so I can feel more comfortable in group settings.
I'll often try to hang on the peripheries of a conversation circle when others are gathered, as opposed to opening myself to being approached or introduced to new people where I'm in danger of appearing uninterested, distant, or even the complete opposite - where I could just start speaking too fast and seem too hyperactive and intense without realising that it's even happening.
I frequently have social events for work, and I dread each and every one of them. I work myself up into such a ball of anxiety before every event. Even writing this down makes me feel uneasy, as I know that my internal struggles with this are private. I haven't told anyone about my ADHD (other than my DP, but we don't talk about it because it makes me uncomfortable and emotional)
I often feel insecure and feel as though I am (or will be) judged by others, or that I won't be taken seriously - especially at work. I know that people think I'm weird and I don't really have any friends. I have colleagues at work, who I see at work events, but none of them ever want to befriend me outside of work. My colleagues are mostly all female and I know that they socialise with each other after work. They arrange lunches and nights out, but they exclude me and don't invite me to those things. They don't exclude me specifically because of my ADHD (because they don't know about it) I think it's because of the way I am. It puts people off wanting to be my friend. Even if they did know, it wouldn't change anything as I'd still be the same person.
I think you're right that male friendships are a bit more straightforward than female friendships. I've struggled making and maintaining female friendships for most of my life. Your observation that the kind of entry 'bar' of admission into a female friendship group is pretty high, and I think you're right. I think women are more judgmental of each other. Especially with today's social pressures, I think a woman's biggest critics are often other women.
I think the judgmental aspect of the way women assess each other runs a bit deeper than how we dress and look. I spend a lot of money on my hair and skin care, and always have nice nails. I love to wear nice clothes and make an effort when going out to social events. I make sure I look my best as this helps me to feel more confident. As I make the effort to look nice, I feel like I should somewhat fit in with other female colleagues who also dress up, but I just don't fit in. It's as if they can see right through me. It's like the other women at work can see my differences or sense that something is wrong with me, and like an animal rejected by its pack, I'm often left out of none-work related social events or kept at arms length because other women don't want to include me or don't see me as a perspective friend.
I have one colleague who doesn't make as much effort with her appearance, and doesn't dress up at all or do anything with her hair (even for special events) but she is massively accepted into friendship groups at work and has lots of friends in her personal life. She is welcomed by others because she's sociable, kind and friendly and people like to be around her. So I don't think looks or grooming play a very big factor in whether you're accepted by female friends, I think it's more complex. I think Superdupes had a good point on their post that it's much easier to make friends when we're young. I've noticed over the years that female friends tend to have life long bonds. They've often stayed friends from a young age and stay close and loyal to each other. Women often find their 'pack' as teenagers and so don't actively look for new friends as they grow, unless the new friend has been welcomed in by another member of the friendship group - like with James and Gary who knew each other growing up and now share other friends in common.
I understand how you feel when you say you're a bit jealous of James being able to have good friends and a job he enjoys despite his autism. I sometimes get jealous of others for similar reasons. It used to make me a bit angry and confused, but over time I've just felt sad. I think I would benefit from close female friends, and somebody I could turn to and share things with, but at times, I'm not sure if I'm even capable.
I know I have social issues and insecurities fed by my ADHD and I can sometimes feel a bit overwhelmed in social situations. I often overthink what I say and how people might perceive me. Feeling as though I'm going to talk too much, or not talk enough often leads me into a cycle of anxiety that I think shows up in my behaviour and interactions with others in these kind of settings. It can make me come across as though I'm acting strange, or that I'm unapproachable or hyperactive. I am able to read social cues and read other people quite well, so my social issues really do lie with me and needing to regulate my behaviour and how I appear to others. This can be hard because although I am learning about myself and my condition as time goes on, I still don't fully understand it. I might not even recognise some of my quirks or strange behaviours, but others do recognise them and I think it puts them off.
Not having friends has made me feel sad for many years, I don't think anybody likes to feel rejected by their peers, but my recent diagnosis has at least helped me to take stock of how I feel in these moments and to step away from uncomfortable situations and just take a breath for a minute when I feel a bit overwhelmed. I feel emotional if I can sense that something is off and maybe that I've over stepped a mark or said the wrong thing. This is when the cycle of anxiety kicks in and it can make things worse. I can go from just chatting with a colleague at a party to feeling like I'm going to suddenly burst into tears.
I was at a work event recently and I was chatting to a colleague when it became very apparent that they were trying to detach themselves from our conversation. They were just itching to get away from me and kept looking passed me and trying to engage somebody else in conversation. I took a deep breath and just stepped back and then excused myself saying I was going to go to the bathroom. Rather than feeling completely rejected as I would normally, and then becoming a bit emotional in that moment, I was able to retreat to the bathroom and just take a few breaths and then think about why they might be behaving in that way.
Maybe they were just being a bit rude? Maybe they were just behaving a bit inconsiderately after a few drinks? Or - maybe I had actually caught myself in a moment of talking too much. I had run away with the conversation and feeling high-energy and stimulated by the environment I was becoming very chatty and a bit too much for them, which can often happen. I was likely speaking at a million miles an hour and not letting them get a word in edge ways. Taking a moment to think about this and have a few minutes in the bathroom on my own, I was able to recenter and then wait until I was ready to go back out there and press the reset button on my actions and behaviour. This helped me to just feel a bit more grounded and although I had to return to the bathroom a number of times during the evening event and take a bit of time out, it helped me better regulate my mood and emotions and helped me feel less anxious about the very busy work event and the social situation that would have normally made me feel overwhelmed and out of my depth.
It's not perfect, but I've found that taking myself out of a situation and just taking a minute to regroup and unpack any triggers like maybe a conversation that has just made me anxious or uncomfortable works as a good coping mechanism. It's certainly given me more clarity in helping to understand myself and my ND a little better. I have only used references to work events because I don't have many (if any) social events in my personal life. Unless it's a family function (which I also find stressful) I don't get invited to parties or events and weddings etc, so most of my social interactions are related to work. My work is very client facing and event orientated, so I'm expected to be sociable and professional at those functions - as you can imagine, it's quite stress-inducing and often fills me with anxiety just thinking about it.
I think your take on male friendships is interesting. They seem more straightforward to me too. Not that I have any male friends, but I have had some in the past when I was younger. I find it a bit easier to talk to men. I think they're more straightforward with their intentions too, which helps me feel more relaxed as I know where I stand. Often men are quite obvious if they are interested in women in a romantic way. I have a DP (and I don't cheat) but I do find small talk with men who are obviously trying to chat me up to be quite simple and low stakes. I feel that men I don't know (like a stranger) is far more likely to not pick up on my ND. They may take my talkativeness to be a sign of excitement or that I'm just interested in what they are saying and it can often break down an awkward social wall. If I'm speaking to a complete stranger that I won't see again, I don't need to feel as anxious about how I'm being perceived. It won't impact my work relationships or how I'm perceived by my peers and I don't need to regulate my behaviour as much or over analyse the way I maybe coming across. I don't think strange men in a bar for example would even mind if I talk too much or talk over them - heck I think they'd just assume that I've had a few drinks.
But in a work setting, to be perceived as being drunk because of my tendency to talk over people or interrupt people when they are speaking has happened in the past and I has left me feeling mortified! I was approached by a male colleague once who mentioned that he didn't get a chance to talk to me at the last work event, but that it was probably for the best as somebody in his team had said that I was quite frazzled and had 'banged on' to her about some silly topic that she found quite boring. I wanted to cry. I wasn't drunk at all, I remember the conversation I had with this female colleague and was just trying to be sociable and normal and just chat about things that I thought would be appropriate and interesting. I certainly didn't feel at the time that I was 'banging on' to anybody, but of course I do have a tendency to talk too much, and especially if I get anxious or become hyper focused on a subject that I am interested in and can often talk for longer than I realise, but as you can imagine, this kind of feedback just makes my whole social issues and insecurities around my ADHD even worse.
When it comes to making friends with men, I don't think you should worry too much about their wives or girlfriends not approving. I think male and females can have platonic friendships especially when they have shared interests and things in common and meet through support groups. Making friends with James for instance and inviting him and his wife for a coffee together could be a good way of making your intentions clear. Maybe with James there, it would actually be easier to make conversation with his wife as well and he could act as kind of safety net in a way. If you find his company easier, he could be the buffer between you and his wife that can actually encourage maybe some easier conversation with her? It may then help in the long run for you to establish a relationship with James that his wife is comfortable with because she has met you, but also perhaps even an unexpected friendship with her - or them as a couple. : )