Daughters physically fighting.

[ahunf]

Hi I'm sick to death. They kick hit scratch pull hair. They are only 12 and 10.

Dd2 is waiting on an autism assessment. Her temper is crazy. She sees red and you can't snap her out if it. It's usually DD1 ego starts annoying her for a stupid reason.

Im also autistic and I hate the constant arguments/ moaning / crying. Obviously I don't want either hurt or in pain. I keep telling them we will end up in A and E soon. That alone gives me anxiety. The questions suspicion going out alone having to get a taxi.

They call each other the most horrendous names. Things no pre teen wants to hear ie fat ugly got no friends. Neither is true and they admit it but say they say it as they know it upsets the other.

If I ban phones they will pester me and I can't take the pestering. I'm so overwhelmed with day to day life. I have anxiety depression sleep apnea dyspraxia. I'm too tired.

Now they have gotten worse as their dad has been away since august. He's due home soon and my god will they have a shock. They have gotten into this habit of having no consequences or authority. He will not stand for this. He won't physically hurt them but he shouts and he will blame me which is true. I've told them they need to learn to walk away quickly before he's home. I moan to their dad to help yet when he shouts I stuck up for them as he's too harsh.

Obviously I separate them. Check if they are hurt. Shout at the other. Tell their dad etc but they don't see me as a parent. They say they do but I have to be really upset for them to understand. Both are lovely separate/ funny / love watching tv with me / chatting but they hate being together. They will turn off the tv if the other walks in and sits with us.They are full siblings so it's not as though they aren't used to each other.

Since they were babies I've dreaded the teen years and me being unable to cope alone and I've not even hit the worst but yet.

I'm not sure what I'm asking really. No one can help me really. I have a sister and yes we argued and sometimes had a little fight but it wasn't constant and not over something ridiculous and not every time we saw each other. I was able to sit in a room with her and my mum for example. Plus our mum just had to give us this look and we knew to stop.

They can get alone for short bursts but I sit and think any minute now it will kick off.

Thanks.

Have you tried banning conversation? Yeah really, as soon as there's a snipe you shut down their lips (effectively). I used to put them on the stairs together (out of arms reach from each other) until they could both calm down. Too old for stairs your 2, but certainly joint responsibility so shared punishment. Because Either could walk away from conflict and stop it escalating.

Mine fought or squabbled a lot, too. I try to believe that it gave them a lot of experience in handling conflict, and they are great at standing up for themselves.

Even when when little if I did that they would walk off. I never did it though. It's my personality , I'm a walkover and too tired / lazy / exhausted by it all. Thank you.

Sounds like you’re very clear that the problem is you not disciplining them for it

sometimes we have to do the hard thing for life to get easier

so you can either find the energy to raise your kids to be pleasant or survive with them being horrible to each other forever

they aren’t going to grow out of it by themselves.
You have to parent them through it.

i know you’re tired and overwhelmed, me also but it’s not going to get better if you just allow the situation to escalate and hope someone else’s sorts it.

you’re the grown up here

You know what a large part of the problem is, you’ve said it yourself. The girls have no one in charge and they are competing for the scant emotional resources available. You’re the grown up here - I know it’s hard but you’re the only one who can improve the atmosphere in your home. Shouting at them when they fight doesn’t address the underlying problem.

How well do you really know your girls as individuals? What they like, what they hate, what they’re afraid of or worried about? Their strengths and flaws? Their triggers? Their behaviour when threatened or upset and what can calm them down? And then, how can you help each girl to understand her sister (and other people) so they have strategies on how best to deal with her, on bad days as well as good?

Do they feel heard and understood?

This all takes effort and it’s something a parent should be doing every single day. Chatting to them, even just on a trip around the shops or on a walk. Giving them lots of compliments specific to each child about what they’re good at and what you love about them. Gently suggesting how they could improve on some things eg not to hurt others with personal insults. Remember that the lower their self esteem, the more they’ll try to hurt each other, partly because a person with low self esteem does not believe that they have the power to hurt anyone and so won’t pull their punches.

Tired or low or depressed as you might feel (and I believe you do feel these things) you have to do these things as a parent. Every single day until they leave home.

I’m also struck that you say what you hate most about the fighting is the loudness and moaning because you’re autistic. What SHOULD bother you most about the fighting is that your girls aren’t happy and don’t have a good relationship with each other. Your mindset needs to shift a bit there.

If removing their phones is the one thing that would bother them - and it seems like it would- then that’s what needs to happen. Every single time. For longer and longer until they stop. And you’ll just have to cope with the pestering as it shows it’s working!

I agree with you.

How does this entirely irrelevant short-term measure help to improve their relationship in the long term?

So removal of their phones is effective then isn't it? You can buy safe devices where you set a timer on it so it won't unlock for that length of time. I would use that to help you.

The more they complain about the phones, the longer they go without. Remind them that you can just remove the phone for forever. It is a reward for good behaviour and you are not seeing that. You cannot defer discipline to your Dh. It is totally unfair to frame him in that role. Get yourself some ear buds or noise cancelling headphones to help you handle the noise.

Remind them both that they are over the age where police could get involved. They are not allowed to physically attack someone just because they are a sibling. Also name calling. Ask them what would happen if they did that to a classmate. You don't have to tell them, they already know what the punishment would be. They do it at home because they can.

I would also speak to the schools they attend and let them know what is happening. They should be able to put some things in place to help them pause before acting.

It punishes their behaviour first and foremost. Then conversations take place reminding them that society does not view physically attacking someone as a way to behave. That it can lead to punishment within school if they lash out there, a lack of friends due to volatile behaviour and worst, arrested for assault with a criminal record.

You sound exhausted and running on empty. First of all you need to give yourself oxygen, before you can give it to others. Can you take a break? Get a spa day or massage or something? Some self care, even if it’s a bath with some bath bombs?

Then when you have some energy you will be able to enforce some rules in the house. Have a family discussion all together what rules they would like in the household, make it collaborative, write it out and stick it on the fridge. Discuss together what consequence they think they should get for breaking the rules too. and then the important bit - stick to the rules and consequences. It will take around a few days, or week of pain and effort, and then they will start to adapt. Think of the long term benefits, the earlier you sort this the better, you’ve still got years to get through!

You need to step up and start parenting them. I know you are exhausted but that's what you have to do.

I would also speak to the schools they attend and let them know what is happening. They should be able to put some things in place to help them pause before acting.
It isn't school's problem that the girls fight at home. What do you think school can do about it? This is down to the mother putting consequences in place.

I meant to put this in the Neurodiverse section

Because it’s a punishment for terrible behaviour!

Ask Mumsnet HQ to move it for you.

Being neuro diverse doesn’t mean you get to opt out of parenting i afraid.

While I sympathise that it is very exhausting and overwhelming trying to be all that your kids need all of the time and I fully empathise that we all don’t be our best selves sometimes that doesn’t change the solution to you problem

which is to dig deep and do what your kids need so they aren’t competing for your scant emotional resources and further depleting them.

I have never read siblings without rivalry but from a personal and professional perspective I am a big advocate of their How to talk so kids with listen and listen so kids will talk

you’re going to need a strategy to deal with them that isn’t wait til your father gets home

this is about your long term relationship with them and you will all feel a lot happier and more nourished if you mend that

it has to be you, no one else can change how they behave when they’re with you