ND and NT - "but we're all individuals who struggle"

[HMSSophia]

My team is doing ND awareness training. It's not going well! I don't know how to respond to NT comments like, "but everyone struggles, everyone is different, why shoudl ND get special treatment", "but the majority is NT, it's a fact, so of course workplaces are geared for NT", and "why should NT people adapt to ND, tolerate the 'unprofessional' behaviours of lateness, directness, disorganisation, oversharing?'

The training is from the "leading" uk organisation in the field but other than the business case - innovation, new ideas - for supporting ND, they are silent on these other questions

Anyone?

It's really tricky and probably depends on how much money there is in the organisation to fund extra help.

But honestly, it's such a no brainer to make small adaptations where possible to get the best out of an employee. I'm talking really simple things like letting people have a fan on their desk or wear headphones / listen to music to help them focus.

But I also think as individuals we need to do our best to moderate our own behaviours as best we can alongside better understanding from workplaces. I mean, I can be very direct with line managers which can cause issues because they're used to bum lickers and sycophants who play the game of office politics better. When actually, if they think about it, there's no greater compliment than someone very sincerely telling them, this is my idea for how maybe we could make things better and improve things for everyone here, you included, line manager! I mean you're trusting them to be an adult professional, rather than a baby who needs their ego massaged all the time!

So basically... let's meet in the middle is my response!

This is such a tough one. Is there any training to what ND is and different difficulties etc.?

I would take the approach that reasonable adjustments are there to bring Neurodiverse people up to a neurotypical working level, so they may get a late start time - but there productivity because of that late work time benefits everybody in the company.

You want neurodiversity on the team, as a previous poster said about office politics being honest can be a good thing. Also creativity. Focus on ND strengths, but to get the full potential of them strengths we need reasonable adjustments.

Google Transformation leadership and star followers. No one really wants a bum licker to move the company forward 😂

An example could be...

NT "why do you get extra time for a project/exam! That's not fair!"

ND "because you get the same standard of work I need extra time. By having that extra time I am able to use my full creativity skills."

Also the workplace is geared up to NT because the majority are NT. so to fit into their box we need adjustments.

What sort of things do they think we get special treatment for? Do you have an example? And most adjustments don't effect NT anyway so that's confusing

Ok a couple of examples.

Peers.

X is NT and sensitive, anxious, insecure. Y, ND, is blunt and direct "you didn't send the email on weds like you said", or "why did you enter 800 when I told you it was 900". X has good reasons for her actions but resents Y's "unnecessary challenge" or "seeking to undermine me". Y says they have black/white thinking as a result of autism, a mistake was made, it's right to point it out.
If we ask X to tolerate Y, she says why should she, it's affecting her mental well-being, why does his autism trump her need for gentle communication.

Another example.
Y fires off a blaming (and correct) email to X, late at night. Y says this is his poor impulse control and emotional disregulation from adhd. X says she can't cope getting these emails from him, it's unprofessional and rude. X won't talk to y anymore. Y says this is bullying and discrimination. X says she's being bullied by Y. Y says it's not bullying it's his adhd.

I dont think in the first example x should trump y.
If x is anxious as in, has disclosed disability of anxiety to line manager, then it's surely more about working out how both should be accommodated?

It's only considered special treatment if you're NT, because that sort of treatment would mean life was made very easy for them. But for ND, it just allows performance at a level closer to that of NT individuals. It's not an unfair advantage, it's correcting a disadvantage. Or taking steps to, at least.

Hmm ok. So both have a disability, both need accommodations. I think at this point managers should mediate between the 2 of them and come up with a solution in the middle. Both require support.

As @SquirrelSoShiny said "But I also think as individuals we need to do our best to moderate our own behaviours as best we can alongside better understanding from workplaces." I think this advise can apply to both X and Y in this situation.

I mean Y could have just told X the reason they didn't send the email instead of refusing.

X could send emails via a contact person rather than direct to Y.

Y shouldn't refuse to talk to anyone considering they must be an adult. You don't have to like the people you work with but communication needs to happen in a work place as does mutual respect.

Never understood why grown ups "refuse to talk!" Like kids. You only have to be polite to people at work you don't have to like them/see them outside of work.

What accommodations are in place currently for both X and Y?

Urgh.

Being direct is rude, is it? They should try not being incompetent.

😂 I mean I'm with you I need direct approach, hate beating around the bush etc.

Maybe an accommodation for Y could be to have a delay on emails so after the impulse has gone they can retract the email if necessary.

But in fairness to Y impulse can't be helped, nor can the direct approach. Where as X's rudeness in not answering questions and not talking can be helped by them growing the F up.

Person x has no diagnosis of any kind - just uses these terms to explain or describe her response to Y.

That’s a tough one, because even if X is undiagnosed, she still may suffer from anxiety and be affected by Y’s behavior. Of course Y should have accommodations, but NT people aren’t Teflon-coated

Sorry, pressed post too soon. While X may know that Y doesn’t mean to upset them, X can still feel anxious/stressed/upset by their blaming or very blunt communication style. As a PP said, it sounds as if some sort of communication accommodation might be beneficial.

This is part of the reason I get angry at the ND is just a difference movement because when we have a disability requiring adjustment, framing it as just another variation/difference means we struggle to find an acceptable response when challenged on the need for adjustments. I’ve been in situations where being autistic has been likened to having “red hair which is just a [variation/]difference of hair colour”

To me this ties in with the we’re all a little bit autistic argument. No! Autistic people and people with adhd are all human. We all share human responses, human behaviours and human traits. Some of us, those who are neurodivergent, have heightened human experiences or dulled human experiences which means we react differently to a NT person with a similar human experience.

The mischievous person in me would be telling all those saying that they’re no different to ND people and have similar struggles that perhaps they’re neurodivergent too. 😉

I agree, @Gcautist . What do you think would be the best approach in the X and Y scenario that the OP described?

When a disabled and non-disabled person are in conflict, the non-disabled person needs to adjust because the disabled person cannot.

X can get help to address their anxiety and insecurity. Y can’t do anything about their autism, there is no cure. So X needs to sort themselves out and deal with their anxiety. Unless X also has a diagnosed disability which causes their anxiety, but it doesn’t sound like they do?

Anxiety can be part of flight or fight (or freeze) response. It sounds like you are saying "get over it" when the body produces a physiological response to a aggressive communication style. Let's not also forget the sex difference will also play a role.
Something doesn't have to be diagnosed to be classed as disability covered by the Equality Act.

I think the ”sure aren’t we all…” comes from two types of people - some NTs are intolerant assholes, but some are NDs who haven’t recognised themselves yet.

The latter are already making adjustments, using hacks to get through.

It’s only in the last twelve months that I’ve realised that, no, most people don’t need strategies to manage daily living. I was very much of the mindset that ds needed adjustments because he has an autistic brain, but dd needed different things, as did I , because everyone has needs and it was a balancing act. My mistake was thinking that dd and myself were NT.

@Gcautist I know you said you were being mischievous but I think you’re on to something. RSD in this case, maybe?

I actually think in both cases Y would benefit from coaching in how to communicate in the workplace. Even putting a couple of “rules” in e.g. whenever you send an email to X, start with one of these phrases… or “do not send emails after Xpm; if you write them, save them in drafts”.

X also needs to deal with her sensitivity at work - but I do feel that Y may be using their ND as a bit of an excuse to be an arse. If Y can’t adapt, that’s one thing - but have they even tried?

(I am ND myself and have come across MANY Ys in my time. Generally male. Generally could adapt to an extent if they want to - but they don’t see why they should have to, particularly if there are women involved. Funnily enough they always manage to adapt if a hulking great bloke challenges them.)

Some companies seem to get this right. DD (autistic) had a meeting with occy health when she started, and (among other things) they arranged a private room to be available for her to withdraw to if she was having a meltdown. They got her involved in their autism support network, where she and a male auty held video conferences for all the company’s autistic staff, where they discussed coping strategies etc. DD said she and the chap were both a bit nervous and stimming under the desk out of camera shot, but it was all v useful!

Quite honestly, in DD’s particular department, I suspect the majority of the staff are autistic - they are all geeky old chaps working in IT and risk analysis, and she gets on with them perfectly. They discuss maths and Star Trek…

I agree with the sentiment of the training. I absolutely hate the ND NT divide that is promoted. I work with a lot of ND individuals and find our needs regularly clash and I get on better with my NT colleagues who've had similar experiences; especially in relation to being anxious or being ostracized due to being a minority.

I've completed the research phase of a PHD into the experiences of autistic students and have found we have a lot in common with other minority groups, yet, instead of this being discussed we're usually pitted against each other.