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Neurodiverse Mumsnetters

Use this forum to discuss neurodiverse parenting.

Son

15 replies

Beachdays44 · 02/06/2022 00:32

My son is almost 9. His asd is very mild. Most of the time he is absolutely fine but sometimes (such as this evening) he will be badly behaved. He knows he is wrong but refuses to apologise. Always says it is someone else's fault..simply cannot take responsibility for his wrongdoing.

I want to insist on an apology but it feels so insincere when he shouts 'sorry' at me.

It's hard on my other two children too seeing him 'getting away' with being awful. It sometimes feels like he is bullying us all...this evening we couldn't watch BGT as he was upset about something and kept loudly crying. He said he 'couldn't help it'... I thought it was a massive overreaction. I felt he deliberately wanted to upset us all as he was upset about something.

How should I deal with these overreactions? He refused to go into a different room .So we all had to miss the program.

We could go months without any over reactions from him. It's hard to know what is 'normal' bad behaviour and what is behaviour as a result of him having asd.

Any advice? He can be a lovely child and is very well behaved for the most part. But when he gets upset it can go on for hours and upsets the whole family.

OP posts:
BoardLikeAMirror · 02/06/2022 00:45

Well, I would probably do my utmost to disrupt a situation where the 'household TV viewing' had been decreed as BGT (or other program I dislike) and it was either watch that or be banished to another room. I'd be telling you to watch it in another room or on a personal device. The rights of people who like a particular TV programme don't automatically trump the rights of those who don't.

No advice because I'm with your DS on this one. But I hope you can reach a compromise in future.

AloyNoraWarrior · 02/06/2022 01:00

He knows he is wrong but refuses to apologise. Always says it is someone else's fault..simply cannot take responsibility for his wrongdoing.

My 12 year old NT child is exactly like this, I think it’s quite common.

It's hard to know what is 'normal' bad behaviour and what is behaviour as a result of him having asd.

When my eldest was diagnosed my Mum asked about this. The CAMHS practitioner replied that you couldn’t say this is NT bad behaviour and this is Autistic behaviour. He is autistic and therefore all his behaviour should be looked at through the lens of autism.

BoardLikeAMirror · 02/06/2022 01:05

Sorry, on reflection I realise that probably sounds a bit harsh, I didn't mean to be unsympathetic. Flowers

It comes from a place of spending years as a child isolated in my bedroom because my family were watching television that I simply wasn't interested in or didn't get - in the days, of course, when people only had one television in the house and 3 or 4 at most channels to choose from.

It's great that you are trying to understand your son and find a solution - I really mean that because my family didn't give a toss and simply gave me a whacking if I disturbed what they wanted to do.

Choose a time when he is calm - because if he has gone into a meltdown he won't be able to think clearly - and talk to him about what he wants, what is driving his unhappiness in this situation. Agree a future strategy with him; some time for him in return for some time for you.

I hope you can resolve this and sorry again for an initially harsh post as a result of this being 'triggering' for me - which of course, I realise, is in no way your fault - you are just trying to do the right thing for your DS.

Beachdays44 · 02/06/2022 08:09

Hi Board LikeAMirror... thanks for response.. I wasn't clear in my post - he likes BGT. He was upset about something else (that's too boring to go into!) but it was while this program was on.

Any advice what to do? Do we just ignore the meltdown (as best we can) while it's happening?

And he doesn't want to talk about it when he is calm... So is that it? Do we never talk about it?!

OP posts:
AloyNoraWarrior · 02/06/2022 11:16

I wish I knew what to do. Sounds like my youngest DS is similar. Very unpleasant for the whole household once he’s in the grip of a meltdown. At that point he is unreachable, you could offer him the world but he would still scream/hit/swear.

I think the key is understanding the trigger and putting strategies in place to try and prevent the meltdown in the first place. It’s difficult because often by the time I realise he’s about to blow it’s too late. You need to learn the subtle signs.

For example with my eldest DS we learnt that when he becomes very animated, talking loudly, in a variety of different accents he is becoming overwhelmed. This is the point at which he needs an intervention. Unfortunately, most people think at that point he’s doing great because he’s so animated. I have found I can calm him back down by asking him questions about his interests.

We are still very much in the trying to learn the triggers stage with my youngest, he is much more volatile. One strategy that seems to be working though is exercise - if I sense he is getting wound up I suggest he has a go on the exercise bike. That seems to really calm him. We did used to have a big trampoline but we don’t have a large garden anymore which is why I got the exercise bike.

Beachdays44 · 02/06/2022 12:18

Thanks for advice... I hate the thought that we have to 'walk on eggshells' around him...
I can deal with the meltdowns but it really bothers me that he won't discuss what has happened or apologise. It worries me for the future - we all make mistakes but saying sorry is such a basic life skill. If he can't (or won't?) say sorry for something where he was very clearly at fault then where does that leave us??
Today he is just carrying on as normal.. as if nothing has happened. He's lost screen time - I've said no access to computer until he's prepared to have a sensible conversation about it.

OP posts:
ItsMutinyontheBunty · 02/06/2022 12:37

Okay…I’m Autistic and I suspect DD is (just starting the assessment process).
so first of all, Autism is a spectrum rather than linear so I would suggest you reframe the “mild” - I guess you mean he is able to communicate effectively most of the time? I would suggest reading The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. It’s a great book that helps you identify triggers to these behaviours. It sounds like he’s having meltdowns - he’s right actually, he can’t help them. But it may be that you can identify the triggers and in time help to prevent some of them from happening.

AloyNoraWarrior · 02/06/2022 13:10

I’m not sure it’s helpful to try and lay blame and force an apology after the fact. Maybe he carries on as though nothing happened because to him it was just a reaction to an unmet need.

If you feel the need for a debrief maybe try putting the emphasis on what could be done differently next time to avoid the situation arising again.

I second The Explosive Child by Ross Green. It is a very difficult situation you are in and I’m not saying you should feel you have to walk around on egg shells but you need to try and understand more from his point of view. You are coming at it from a very NT viewpoint. Which is fair enough. My mum is the same, she often thinks I’m allowing my children to ‘get away with it’ and she would parent them very different to me. Being autistic myself it’s a little easier for me to get into their mindset. And often afterwards my mum will say actually I think you were right in the way you handled that.

Staynow · 02/06/2022 13:25

I would imagine the problem is that he isn't sorry. A lot of children will say sorry realising it's just something you say to help everyone get over something. But people with ASD are often the most honest people you'll ever meet (not saying they can't lie!) and so he doesn't see why he would say sorry when he's not. It literally makes no sense to him.

You see it as he ruined the show for you. He probably sees it as he was upset about something that was very important to him (even if it was inconsequential to you) and you didn't care and just wanted him to shut up so you could watch tv. Now why would he think he should apologise in that situation?

Maybe try listening and learning what is important to him and trying to respect it, some of it of course may be unreasonable and not possible and he will have to compromise or learn to accept that. But if you can explain exactly why it's unreasonable/not possible then that may really help him - never assume he knows the things that are obvious to you. He may see them in a completely different way.

Staynow · 02/06/2022 13:29

ItsMutinyontheBunty · 02/06/2022 12:37

Okay…I’m Autistic and I suspect DD is (just starting the assessment process).
so first of all, Autism is a spectrum rather than linear so I would suggest you reframe the “mild” - I guess you mean he is able to communicate effectively most of the time? I would suggest reading The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. It’s a great book that helps you identify triggers to these behaviours. It sounds like he’s having meltdowns - he’s right actually, he can’t help them. But it may be that you can identify the triggers and in time help to prevent some of them from happening.

Oh come on everyone knows what mild means in relation to ASD ie in comparison to severe, it really doesn't need 'reframing'. You even went on to state what it meant fgs.

MartinReubyUnsungHero · 02/06/2022 13:52

Are you ND too or just him? Because your post drips with lack of understanding or compassion for him.

I suspect this has shown up in active as this is the board for ND mumsnetters.

BlackeyedSusan · 03/06/2022 00:29

are you pissed off because he was being disabled? You probably need to find out a bit more about asd and occupational therapy to help him as it seems that you don't know some of the important stuff yet. and are interpretting things through a NT viewpoint and probably trying to parent a nd child like a nt child

sounds like he was having a meltdown. once this has started, no he can not help it, he probably can not remember anything that happened in the meltdown as he will not have been able to make new memories because the part of the brain that makes memories was not working at that point and he was only using the emotional "old brain" at that point. (it's how the neurodevelopment team described it) effectively you are asking him to apologise for something he has no memory of.

If you want sympathy as a parent you are best off in the goose and carrot pub on sen chat. It's a good place to let off steam. virtual gin on tap by the barrel load. here, not so much as it is for ND posters rather than parents of autistic kids. quite a few of us are going to see it from your childs point of view and have more sympathy for him. The goose and carrot has the advantage that your posts are deleted after ninety days.

So meltdowns happen when he is overwhelmed. This may be due to all sorts of reasons. could be sensory, or upset over having lost something, someone has moved his stuff, or his routine is out of whack or bloody school, or you have been a bit of a numpty regarding autism . You need to be responsible to help him regulate his emotions. Best way is prevention as once they have started, there is not much you can do to stop them. You need to be aware of his triggers and do your best to avoid them.

some sensory stuff is actually physically painful. some sounds cause pain in my ears, for example. actual physical pain. maybe some sensory stuff is reaally painful for him. his sensory profile is going to be unique to him. he may be over or under sensitive. so light touch is often painful, or clothes irritating, or he needs to lean on stuff and do lots of jumping or he is senstive to sounds and lights or seeks out loud sounds, or will not eat stuff because of texture or make sensory seek strong tasting foods or like chewing stuff. etc, etc etc.

stuff. some autistic people are very attached to their stuff. don't touch it, don't borrow it, don't move it. fucking about with it can trigger a meltdown.

some things seem fucking random. (eg it was really important to have a dirty plate removed NOW, earlier this week, and yes, I was not as sympathetic to that need as I should have been...because as it happened I was a bit meltdowny myself at that point. it was moved but not quite as urgently as the noise eminating from above suggested it should have been... ) from the op I suspect that it was something that seemed randonm to you that triggered the meltdown, and he did not have the words to express what it was, you were not in the right frame of mind to listen carefully and process that... (because we are all human and somethines we just want to watch the fucking film or not walk up the stairs twice in my case of the dirty plate)

Prevention:

keep blood sugar levels up. first sign of dysregulation feed them. better to feed regularly annd avoid the dysregulation in the first place.

ditto drinks, and correct temperature, as he may need you to tell him to take layers off or put layers on as it is common not to be able to recognise being to hot/cold or hunger or thirst for that matter. (interoception is fucked... may be noticable in not knowing he needs to go to the loo until the last minute.)

work out his sensory profile and adjust his environment to suit. (look it up)

work out his triggers. what happened this time to set him off... make a note, of everything that happened and see if you can start to spot patterns. make adjustments to suit.

don't try to do too much. one thing per day and some rest days at home might be required. work out maximum length of time you can do stuff and don't go over it. just five more minutes might be disasterous. (been there done that, got the scars to prove it) ( you migh need to tag team to do stuff with the other kids)

adjust your thinking. you are parenting a disabled child. you have to parent differently to nt children. this is really difficult to adjust to as the whole world seems to be about you should be doing this or that.... I think this is one of the hardest things to do and it is really easy to fall into the trap of trying to be a nt family when you are not. the equivalent of trying to take your kid in a wheelchair on an obstacle course made for NT athletic kids. just you are not going to be able to push a wheel chair across a rope bridge, you are not going ot be able to do stuff in the same way, with a ND child that you would do with a NT child. But it is harder to see this and accept this as we want our kids to be able to do all the stuff others can. They will do stuff, but in their own way and at their own time and you can work towards doing stuff but at their pace and it might not be the same stuff. and it is really hard to get your head round.

occupational therapy... every day you can manage. calming activities. ask for a referral and google in the mean time. OT thought that one activity every day was important.

try to intervene with calming activities, or quiet if you spot the dysregulation first.

screen time might help.

I can diffuse early meltdown phase with glucose, and sometimes tickling and humour works, if early enough. helps you too.

help him to breathe slowly... using star breathing or some other technique. you do it too. try blowing bubbles, or getting him to blow bubbles. the breathing thing helps. You need to be calm too as your irritation will be like pouring water onto a chip pan fire. even normal talking may be perceived as being cross. try a singsongy voice.

During a melt down: (they can vary in intensity)

don't talk. he can not process it. it will make it worse.
if he is telling you he is upset over something, agree that it is upsettting for him, even if you are not bothered by that thing personally.
try hugging firmly.
try rocking back and forth in one direction.
try putting him somewhere quiet and safe

ie find what works for him

Do not attempt to talk to him about what ever it was for well over half an hour or so after things appear to be calm. adrenaline takes a while to get out the system. you need it to clear compeltely otherwise you could set the whole thigng off again. even if he appears calm he may not be yet.

as a previous poster has mentioned, try the what could we do differently approach.

look after you too. You are going to get an adrenaline rush from a meltdown and then a crash as it wears off. you need time for it to clear. (mine manifests as sudden onset of feeling really weepy about half an hour after the end of their meltdown) look after the other kids. you all need time to recover.

he will get better at controlling meltdowns himself, in time, you need to teach him techniques in the mean time, firstly be doing it for him, then teaching him to recognise the signs. He will still have them but they will become less frequent, more preventable and more controllable, even if he still does have some humdingers. You need to work with him to allow him to withdraw, or go and calm down or avoid stuff that triggers them and adjust to the limits of his ability. breach those preventative measures and you are in for trouble... (it is sometimes really easy to push the just one more... with resulting meltdown )

Scautish · 03/06/2022 23:00

@Staynow

your post is deeply ableist and I have reported it. This is a board for ND Mumsnetters and your post indicates you understand very little about autistic adults without learning difficulties. I am therefore assuming you are not autistic (but of course could still be ND)

you wrote:

“Oh come on everyone knows what mild means in relation to ASD ie in comparison to severe, it really doesn't need 'reframing'. You even went on to state what it meant fgs”

Many (most) autistic people, including me, find the use of “mild” as a descriptor exceptionally unhelpful and even damaging. “Mild” is what is inferred by the non-autistic person interacting with the autistic person. It does not mean that the autistic person only experiences “mild” symptoms. Obviously there is a huge difference between an autistic person without learning difficulties (like me) and a child with severe learning difficulties as well as autism. I am not underestimating how unbelievably difficult life can be for the carer of that child. But it does not give anyone the right to define or minimise our autism and how it affects us.

To get a diagnosis of autism, your life needs to be “clinically significantly impaired on a daily basis”. Mine is such - it is not mild - even though I have an above average IQ. I am impacted every single day.

I would therefore like to very politely ask that you refrain from using mild when describing any autistic person. It is offensive and harmful. I also do not think you should be posting on the autistic-related threads on these boards. This should be a space for us to be free from non-autistic people bullying us.

Beachdays44 · 03/06/2022 23:32

Thanks for all the interesting advice...I do appreciate the time taken to respond.

I meant no offense with the use of the word 'mild'.. I use this word because my son is not impaired on a day to day basis. He is in a mainstream class and doing really well. He doesn't seem to have any sensory needs. I have even questioned his diagnosis.

I recognise that he sometimes struggles with emotional regulation. He can go months without any meltdowns but then can dig his heels in about something and get really angry. I was just looking for advice as to how to handle this behaviour. I guess it'll be trial and error.

I was interested to hear about the "not forming memories during meltdown'... This is something I would never have considered. Thanks. We'll keep doing our best with him.

OP posts:
BlackeyedSusan · 04/06/2022 11:04

The memories thing was in a presentation by the neurodevelopment team at local clinic, post diagnosis. It did explain a lot.

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