Object permanence

[ofwarren]

Does anyone else struggle with this? It's common in both ASD and ADHD.
It's a huge issue for me. If I put things away, it's like they don't exist any more. I totally forget about them. I look through my cupboards and I'm like "ooh, I forgot I had that!" Or I buy multiples of things as I forget I already have some.

themighty.com/2021/09/adhd-forget-friends-love-me-object-permanence/

I was diagnosed with Asperger's at the time (in my early 30s, about 10 years ago) and this was the first time I had ever heard about this.

Apparently, there is typically a point in an NT child's development when they become aware of other people's existence when they're not there, which I believe normally kicks in at around 5 or so.

I was honestly probably in my late teens before I had that 'aha!' moment and I still don't have a great grasp of it, tbh. It can be useful, though - if somebody or something offends me, they are literally dead to me and may as well have never existed. I don't hold grudges!

I also get the idea of 'out of sight, out of mind', which is why I have a series of highly complicated systems in place to make sure I can put my hand on anything at any given time (and get upset if people - typically NTs - mess with it).

I have a theory that autistic people's lack of or struggle with the concept of OP ties in to NTs' idea that 'all autistic people lack empathy'.

I don't lack empathy per se, but I cannot conceive of feeling on behalf of another person or thing when they're not there, if that makes sense?

Interesting, OP. I am awaiting assessment for adhd. I had not connected this to that, but my dh is constantly moaning at me about buying stuff that we already have.

@AffIt

I was diagnosed with Asperger's at the time (in my early 30s, about 10 years ago) and this was the first time I had ever heard about this.

Apparently, there is typically a point in an NT child's development when they become aware of other people's existence when they're not there, which I believe normally kicks in at around 5 or so.

I was honestly probably in my late teens before I had that 'aha!' moment and I still don't have a great grasp of it, tbh. It can be useful, though - if somebody or something offends me, they are literally dead to me and may as well have never existed. I don't hold grudges!

I also get the idea of 'out of sight, out of mind', which is why I have a series of highly complicated systems in place to make sure I can put my hand on anything at any given time (and get upset if people - typically NTs - mess with it).

I have a theory that autistic people's lack of or struggle with the concept of OP ties in to NTs' idea that 'all autistic people lack empathy'.

I don't lack empathy per se, but I cannot conceive of feeling on behalf of another person or thing when they're not there, if that makes sense?

I bet you are right about the "lack of empathy" thing.
I moved away from my home town over 10 years ago now and I literally forget that those members of my family exist on a day to day basis. I can go weeks without thinking of them. I think I'd be even worse if I didn't follow them on Facebook and see their posts occasionally.

I do this - I tend to buy things I already have and have forgotten about. I cope by being extremely tidy and organised though, and checking my cupboards before I go shopping.

Have to say I think the article you've posted is total bullshit. If you forget friends' birthdays etc, set yourself reminders in your calendar (I set diary reminders for friends' birthdays, their kids' birthdays, and anything else important that they mention like exams or starting a new job so that I can send them a card or message). Found it pretty amusing that the author of the article expects people to remember that she uses special pronouns when she's admitted she pretty much forgets her friends exist, and complains that she gets sad if friends don't provide constant reassurance that they love her but she can't remember their birthdays and doesn't answer their texts... I'm glad she's not my friend!

One thing I found useful OP was putting all sauces and the like in the salad drawer of the fridge and anything I needed to use up in the door, more often than not it would get used and as PP said being organised is the key, a friend of mine always says organised house organised mind

yes i do this. I realised recently that I had 3 hair straighteners and 4 pairs of those curling tongs. I felt so ashamed about it

@TheOccupier I didn't really read the article to be fair. I just quickly googled for something to explain what I was talking about.
You are right, it does sound like bullshit.

@JustAnotherPoster00

One thing I found useful OP was putting all sauces and the like in the salad drawer of the fridge and anything I needed to use up in the door, more often than not it would get used and as PP said being organised is the key, a friend of mine always says organised house organised mind

I'm so unbelievablely disorganised too, so I struggle a lot. I have terrible executive function.

@Branleuse

yes i do this. I realised recently that I had 3 hair straighteners and 4 pairs of those curling tongs. I felt so ashamed about it

Sorry, but this made me laugh 😁
Sounds like something I'd do.

This is me to a tee; I’ve bought two of the same extremely expensive handbags before as I completely forgot I’d bought the first one. Thankful able to return one, but I’ve now started taking pictures of things important like this so I can refer back to my inventory if I want to make a big purchase.

I drive my husband to despair with my idiosyncrasies, he is also ND but his coping mechanisms are the absolute opposite of mine so we have clashed a lot in the past. We now keep completely separate spaces a lot of the time in our home, so that we can keep our own weirdness organised in our own way.

I’m hugely guilty of out of sight out of mind when it comes to friendships and acquaintances; I set reminders for birthdays and big events, will text or send cards etc, but if you don’t reciprocally make the effort with me, my brain will simply forget that you exist. It saves me a lot of heartache so I can’t complain.

I think perhaps this can be why visual organising systems work better for some people than traditional clear-everything-away-into-drawers-and-cupboards organising. I’m definitely a visual organiser. If everything is “put away” in cupboards etc I will literally forget we have them unless there is some other cue to remember it. I like to see my stuff. But that doesn’t mean I like to be disorganised and messy although I’ve spent my life being told that’s just naturally what I am and it’s an inherent failing of mine. Nope. It’s just that traditional ways of organising and tidying things do not work for how my mind works.

Have to say I couldn’t sustain patience or interest in that article, it was very self absorbed wasn’t it, I agree with @TheOccupier!

@LemonViolet
When you say visual organiser, do you mean having things out on display like on open shelves?
I'm interested in this as I think it might work for me. At the moment I live in chaos.

Check out Clutterbug on YouTube - I feel like I’m always plugging this woman but I do think she’s fab have been following her for years - she has a theory about organising styles being visual or hidden, and micro or macro, and names them after different bugs (insects). So yes visual organising would involve more open shelves, things on pegs or hooks, transparent containers like wire baskets or clear plastic etc, labels are visual cues too.

Here I found a video where she re-explains it a bit

She has ADHD too.

@LemonViolet

Check out Clutterbug on YouTube - I feel like I’m always plugging this woman but I do think she’s fab have been following her for years - she has a theory about organising styles being visual or hidden, and micro or macro, and names them after different bugs (insects). So yes visual organising would involve more open shelves, things on pegs or hooks, transparent containers like wire baskets or clear plastic etc, labels are visual cues too.

Here I found a video where she re-explains it a bit

She has ADHD too.

Wow! That was a revelation! Thank you so much.
I am officially a butterfly and am going to go down a massive organising rabbit hole tonight 😄

This is one of my biggest issues. This and doom piles. I now try to have everything open so I can see everything. My larder looks like the back room of a supermarket as when I pop in I forget what I have so pick up another one and then realise I have 5 or 6 of the same product in the cupboard. Finally came up with a cure for loosing my key I always put it on the kitchen cupboard but I have also attached a wrist keychain so I can put it on my wrist while I'm on the way out the door and so I don't do the 35 times checking of the handbag.