Surviving Stereotypes

[BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation]

A support thread for neurodivergent people to discuss the issues that affect them both on MN and in the outside world

(Please, not a fight thread where people come along to: explain autism to us, tell us we're doing it wrong, don't understand the issues, tell us we're competing with autistic children or our issues don't matter.)

I think a couple of big issues is firstly that you never see diversity of experiences represented anywhere. It’s either savant genius or slightly quirky oddballs. And secondly, and I know I might be flamed for this, but I think the self-diagnosed get too much of a voice. If someone isn’t diagnosed, or at least on a formal diagnostic pathway, they shouldn’t be treated as representative of what autism “is”

I don't think I have a problem with eye contact. At least none that's ever really bothered me I have a problem maintaining interest, and then my eyes are all over the place looking at squirrels/the patterns on the wallpaper/anything that'll stop me blurting out how bored I am.

I hate the fact that society thinks I'm disabled because I tell someone they're boring and not realising how rude it is. But they're not called disabled for not realising how boring they are. Why is the fault in that situation with me?

I think a couple of big issues is firstly that you never see diversity of experiences represented anywhere. It’s either savant genius or slightly quirky oddballs. And secondly, and I know I might be flamed for this, but I think the self-diagnosed get too much of a voice. If someone isn’t diagnosed, or at least on a formal diagnostic pathway, they shouldn’t be treated as representative of what autism “is”

Absolutely.

Why is the fault in that situation with me?

Social niceties isn't it? We don't get a say in them though. I mean, lying is wrong isn't it? Yet other people routinely lie about all kinds of things. It's just accepted as the norm now. To me, that's wrong and honesty is more important.

I used to believe that being punctual, hardworking, honest, clear, concise and accurate would be seen as essential in my line of work (nursing). Wrong. Being able to chat about your holiday and offering everyone a coffee was seen as more important. Likewise, chatting with colleagues was more important than administering someone's pain relief.

My DD came downstairs one time, ready to go out, and asked how she looked. I told her she looked awful as the dress didn't suit her and made her look fat. So she went back upstairs to change. My NT visitor at the time was horrified and told me off for being unkind. I asked if she thought what I'd said was untrue and she said no, it was just unkind. How is it kind to lie and tell someone they look great when they don't? How is it kind to let them go out knowing people will be laughing at them behind their back? Why do NT people do this?

I didn't 'destroy my DD's confidence' with my opinion. She came back down looking fantastic and could go out in full confidence that she did indeed look fantastic because her mum never lies to her.

By the way I'm also FatCatThinCat. I'm afriad my phone is also autistic as it's very set in its ways and cope with transitioning to my new name.

@bringbackcoffeecreams that made me chuckle

I’m autistic and have 4 autistic kids. Once someone suggested the reason the DC have autism is we vaccinated them… they didn’t find it funny when I faux suggested our cats are autistic too as we vaccinated them

Oh, the vaccine argument is really offensive. Even if you can ignore the fact vaccines don’t cause autism - people would rather their children potentially die than be autistic? Really?

I thought all cats were autistic. Isn't there a well known book about autism called that?

In our house we joke about the vaccinations causing autism thing. We tease each other every time we have to get a jab 😆

(It is awful though)

I thought all cats were autistic. Isn't there a well known book about autism called that?

I think it's 'All Cats Have Aspergers'.

They do though, don't they? 😄

Like routines.
Like peace and quiet.
Hate being touched and fiddled with, or only on their terms.
Totally aggressive if triggered.
Introverted.
Everything has to be done on their terms.
Can be cute and quirky.
Aloof.
Refusal to conform.
Prefer being alone.
Often lead a secret life when by themselves.
Hate trying new food.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

I thought all cats were autistic. Isn't there a well known book about autism called that?

I think it's 'All Cats Have Aspergers'.

They do though, don't they? 😄

Like routines.
Like peace and quiet.
Hate being touched and fiddled with, or only on their terms.
Totally aggressive if triggered.
Introverted.
Everything has to be done on their terms.
Can be cute and quirky.
Aloof.
Refusal to conform.
Prefer being alone.
Often lead a secret life when by themselves.
Hate trying new food.

I thought I was alone in thinking my cat also had Autism. He really fits in with us and knows how we are feeling / when to leave us alone. I really think he was meant to be with us. He's a rescue Ragdoll. Had 2 homes before he was 3. I often whisper to him that he's ok now. He's with us and we understand him. DD calls him her 'anchor'and goes to him in times of meltdown

I find it really hard to find that kind of stuff amusing, it feels like ocd being reduced to neat and tidy. Like, asd for me isn’t cute and funny that cats have it, it’s ruined my life and I’ve never had any support to understand myself, the dx at 39 was a life saver but I am so bitter and hurt about what a waste it’s been. Maybe even within a support thread we can’t relate to each other.

No, I do relate to what you say @ENoeuf my life has been very tough because of my autism. I've had a lot of shitty things happen and I burned out at age 50. My life is horribly restricted now and it's only meds that are keeping me going. I try to use humour to deal with stuff. I have quite a dark sense of humour as well.

Do you think the shorty things happened because of asd, or were worse because of it, or incidental? I find it hard sometimes to understand. I know my absolute failure to use any of my intellect or ‘promise’ is due to not having any social skills in the work place and quitting jobs, being disliked, unable to manage people. I’m really finding it hard to accept my life is now where most people are looking back and being happy about what they’ve done and I’m still frantically trying to fit in.

Do you think the shorty things happened because of asd, or were worse because of it, or incidental? I find it hard sometimes to understand. I know my absolute failure to use any of my intellect or ‘promise’ is due to not having any social skills in the work place and quitting jobs, being disliked, unable to manage people. I’m really finding it hard to accept my life is now where most people are looking back and being happy about what they’ve done and I’m still frantically trying to fit in.

The stuff happened because of a lot of bad luck (parental death, in care, abused etc.) and then my autism made it worse because I couldn't speak out against what was done to me. Once I got to my teens it was a battle to cope with others and I got bullied a lot. My social skills were poor and I went into nursing where I had to learn to communicate and manage, but it was an awful struggle for the whole time. I pissed people off, had to leave jobs, was misunderstood, misrepresented etc. Ironically, I got on well with patients and colleagues, it was the relatives I struggled with. They try and catch you out and all manner of unpleasantness. I had a breakdown in the end.

I never got over being diagnosed with autism and adhd (adhd to a lesser extent). I've been upset for the kid, teen, young adult etc. that I was and what happened to me. I have nobody to talk to about it and I can't process it. I resent NTs so much and distrust virtually everyone.

I think perhaps counselling might help you because it sounds like you're stuck trying to process it as well. Have you tried to get help? I just take meds and avoid people. I can't talk to counsellors as I'm too angry.

Yes some of your history really resonates - a childhood parental bereavement (not the same as abuse at all, but I imagine similarly traumatic?) and not fitting in. It sounds like you may have been diagnosed earlier? I’m so upset at the world really that I didn’t benefit from any of the understanding or awareness there is now (even superficially in schools) and I just kept on trying and failing and just being disliked again and again without understanding what was wrong with me. I don’t know how to cope with being this age, it being all over, and I didn’t get a chance to live as me. I don’t even know if that makes sense.

I was diagnosed at 45 then with adhd at 50. You're right, it does feel like a terrible waste for all those years. No matter how hard we try we still fall short and it just goes on relentlessly with no respite. Others take things utterly for granted and know they'll be accepted anywhere and everywhere whereas we're like aliens stranded on a hostile planet trying to remain camouflaged and undetected. I know, it's so tough, people have no idea.

Somehow we have to incorporate our new identity into our lives and carry on. We can't change the past. You're still young enough to get counselling or therapy. Could you afford it or the NHS might provide something.

I’m going to post this on a couple of relevant threads so lukewarm apologies for the repetition but I wanted to flag up an interesting podcast episode that covers a lot of relevant ground.

I originally skipped this episode because it’s titled as though it’s purely about anti-vaccination but it turns out it covers a LOT of autism related content, including the history of autism, the controversy around Aspergers, the history of diagnosis, the MMR/Wakefield debacle and more.

Most importantly the guest contributor is autistic himself and very knowledgeable.

It’s good and it’s very accessible.

It’s an episode of “You’re wrong about” from February 2021.
Available on lots of platforms or here;

www.podchaser.com/podcasts/youre-wrong-about-1216514/episodes/the-anti-vaccine-movement-83531933

😃👍🏻

Following - and TX @BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation for getting this thread started! Will post Anon, head too tired now

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I hate the eye contact based stereotypes. Yes I give eye contact and have learnt to go it effectively at interview or similar but I wear sunglasses all the time and don't look at people when I'm talking or if they are being intense in their tone or eye contact. My eyes are all over the place usually. I'm distracted and bored and a million things are going through my head and I can't concentrate especially if there is noise. I have to tell myself to focus but it doesn't work very well although I do remember conversations well unless people are talking at me. It freaks people out that I remember so much and they think I'm a stalker

@AutisticLegoLover I've got used to eye contact over the years, but I don't like doing it. It makes me feel very uncomfortable.

Out of all the autistic people I know, only one doesn't make eye contact. The rest - including myself - are actually very direct with our eye contact.

It's just another stereotype I think.

The assumptions that you are defective if you don't automatically understand non-verbal and non-obvious communication.
Thing is I don't understand people who find me annoying but who won't raise it with me until they snap while I have plodded along oblivious.
I do not go out of my way to annoy people. It is possible that I do have no understanding as to why something annoys you but then I am hardly going to know it unless you actually say something.