Taylor Swift - The Tortured Poet's Department - album discussion thread

[OldHabitsDieScreaming]

Hello Swifties! Thought I would start a thread to chat about TS11 or TTPD or whatever we're calling it 😁Don't know about you but the excitement is building for this old-enough-to-know-better Swiftie and I'll be taking the long way into work tomorrow so I can listen to it in Peace...(see what I did there?)

So this thread is for anyone who loves TS and wants to talk/think/muse/swoon over the newest output from the hardest-working woman in music!

Personally I'm intrigued and delighted that Aaron Dessner seems to have co-writing credits on several tracks - I'm a committed Folklore/Evermore fan and more in a similar vein will be very welcome!

(Oh, and while hopefully this doesn't need saying, please don't bother posting to say how shit/overrated/talentless you think TS is. This is a fan / appreciation thread about a specific piece of work and it would be lovely to keep it that way.)

I think she was mad at the fans and probably family/friends for criticising her and Matty at the time whilst knowing now they were all right. I can't imagine many people in her life were supportive.

I do think her and Matty were much more serious than anyone thought when they first had a fling and maybe he was her 'one that got away' then they actually got it together and it was carnage.

Doesn't anyone think The Black Dog is about Joe cheating? I 100% think Joe cheated on her as well as crushing her with his indifference. You can see why she ran to a naughty boy after him.

yeah makes sense she’d be cross at everyone, shame I really enjoy the songs she writes when she’s angry!

The black dog- my initial thought was Joe when listening but then I read that the starting line is Matty Healy’s favourite band or something- I’m going to bed now but putting this as reminder to google that again tomorrow! But that reference seems to point to him.

I went into this album assuming Joe cheated, I’m thinking he didn’t now tbh, if anything it was Taylor, emotionally cheating anyway, sounds like this Matty thing has been longstanding!

https://www.thecut.com/article/every-matty-healy-revelation-on-tortured-poets-department.html The starting line and other stuff mentioned in this article.

I've just seen the Stevie Nicks wrote a poem for the physical copies of the album.

The black dog I take as they’ve broken up, he’s moving on and she’s still sitting watching his location on her phone

Dunno whether the he is Joe or Matty tbh 😂 could argue for either on the lyrics, maybe it’s both?

Just watched the Fortnight music video - I liked the cameos from Ethan Hawke and Josh Charles who were in Dead Poets Society.

When you read Taylor's poem:

https://www.capitalfm.com/news/music/taylor-swift-tortured-poets-department-prologue-poem-meaning/

It's definitely pretty much all about Matty.

I like that idea for the black dog post breakup. As soon as I read about the starting line reference I can’t unsee Matty from the song- I really think an only a few songs on the whole album aren’t about him!

have you all watched the video? I enjoyed it and I’m wondering what Easter eggs I missed! I love short video too- wish she’’d drop her exercise routine for us!

The reason I’m not 100% sold on the black dog being about matty or completely about him anyway is mostly the location sharing, that feels more like it should be Joe and

You said I needed a bravе man
Then proceeded to play him

is making me think actor.

But I mean, Matty could have had location sharing on and that line could be about him being dishonest.

Personally I think a lot are definitely about matty and the whole situation where people were doing things like that open letter to her about him, some are definitely about Joe, some are about other stuff and some are amalgamations of stuff.

I think although a lot of it is on the face of it Matty focused, it's got echoes of Getaway Car. Running from this big relationship that fell apart into the arms of someone else. He was dangerous and maybe someone she'd held on to the possibility of all for these years.

Fresh out the slammer, guilty as sin. She'd been thinking about him, ran to him. They'd been in the studio in 2022 and we know that her and Joe were dying in 2021. Then she was on stage with the band in early 2023.

I think we need to remember that Taylor hasn't always been 100% biographical and never will be. Some songs will be about one person entirely, others will take from various pieces of her life pieced together to make a compelling song/narrative, even more bits might be simply what rhymed or had the right cadence or syllables.

Yes, it's pure speculation, isn't it?! But that's part of the fun.

I do think that the anger and defiance in But Daddy, I Love Him were really powerful. She's saying it's her life, it's her name, her reputation and she doesn't answer to fans or meddling do-gooders. I love that. She's always done what she thought was wanted or expected of her, always been a massive people pleaser, and this album is such a statement of independence.

It feels like she's saying, this is who I am as an artist, but you don't own me and you don't know me. You don't get to tell me about sad.

I also think Who's Afraid of Little Old Me is a clapback to Olivia Rodrigo as well as in general to all the people who think they're better than her or that her talent and success is some kind of a trick. "You wouldn't last an hour in the asylum I was raised in" -- you have no idea what I'm capable of.

Gah! I love her!

The more I listen to it, the more I think this may be her best album yet.

It's so raw, so angry, so clever and complex and thoughtful. I started thinking that whilst it was lyrically fantastic (as expected) it wasn't that interesting musically. But actually I am starting to see so much more in that side of things. Obviously there is a TS 'sound' anyway, but I'm loving the hat-tips to her country era, to Lover etc. I just think her brain is fucking planet-sized and she's drawing so many threads together from years and years of making music. I'm really enjoying it so much.

Someone's predictably started a 'Taylor Swift makes music for children' thread. I'm not even going there, not going to waste my breath trying to defend/explain anymore. No one can hear this album and genuinely hold that opinion, it's laughable.

@TTPD not only was it a cameo their names on their white coats matched their names in DPS.

I like it alot more today than I did yesterday, it's started to bed in and now that I've watched the official lyric videos they make a lot more sense.

Oh it’s total speculation, I’m saying definitely as if I know something 😂 obviously I don’t.

Tbh, I think I’d be a bit sad to know for definite what some songs are about… and my absolute favourites are because they make me feel something that has literally nothing to do with whatever she was probably writing them about.

Ok so since it's been over 24 hours and I've had a good few listens, I'm obsessed. Incredible song writing as usual, maybe in my top 5

Reading tattle’s thread and someone has spoken about the finality of the album and a sense that it closes a chapter for her and for her career. manuscript definitely has that vibe.

It does make me wonder if after the tour concludes whether she’ll take a hiatus, Travis will propose (whether or not he’s endgame…) and whatever else comes with that (maybe kids). She clearly wants to settle and marry, at least she likes the idea of it.

This clip from TS on Graham Norton from almost a decade a go came to mind when listening to Clara Bow Fans talk about dying dead in excitement

My one Swiftie friend and I were saying the same last night. I wouldn't be at all surprised if, once the tour ends, TS disappears for a good while with Travis, maybe a baby? She's not stupid, she knows that over-exposure is a real danger and the multiple references to wedding rings and cradles on TTPD suggest that this is high on her priority list now.

This album feels literally like 'the end of the Eras'. Although of course there is still Rep/Debut TV...

This album feels literally like 'the end of the Eras'. Although of course there is still Rep/Debut TV...

I think she will want to end the tour having done all the re-records. So then it would be end of the eras - she's done the tour, owns all the music, and then it's a door closed on that.

She'll be 35, pretty much, at the end of the tour. If she does indeed want children (as you say, whether she ends up with Travis forever or not) then you'd think she might do that next (while recording but not touring).

I don't think she will end up with Travis. They seem sweet together and he is full of praise and adoration for her (which I'm sure feels wonderful after all this shitty men who think they're better than her.) But she's this creative powerhouse who lives in her imagination, with this vast brain, and he's... well, he's sweet! I think she's going to get bored of him before too long.

I may be wrong. It may be that she no longer feels she has so much to prove (hints of that on this album) and she's ready to take a step back from public life to have a kid and family.

I don't know, though. We saw with Joe how stepping away from the limelight was boring and depressing for her. She wants to keep creating and performing and my bet is that she's going to come up with something even bigger.

But yes, she is overexposed and probably ought to give herself a year off!

I suppose the difference with Joe and potentially a different partner was there’s no hint he was willing to give her what she wanted (marriage) in return for stepping away from the spotlight.

I'm a lifelong Swiftie since about 2008 but I'm really struggling to get into this album, it feels like a bit of a chore listening to it and it's quite depressing. I'll keep going, I normally fall in love eventually.

PS Kelce is not if. He's a chimp. I have no idea what she sees in him!

After listening on and off since yesterday morning…

I hate to say it, but I think there’s too many songs. Not in an overwhelmed way, though yes to start with 😂

But in a - I think in a few days I’ll be skipping quite a few.

Though I’m still considering the idea I proposed to my DD earlier that you can build your own more cohesive album, like a pick and mix. 🤷‍♀️

I think she wants True Love (although I suspect Ratty Healy may have kicked this out of her) but I don't think she really wants kids. Her life is too full. Also I think it's a terrible idea. Imagine being the child of the most famous person in the world. How would she keep them safe? I just don't see it happening. I think it might be something she would have wanted for herself at some point but now her life is just too insane.

Again, pure speculation! Maybe part of the appeal of Travis is his family culture, that she can see him as a protector and dad.

Anyway, I love this album more and more the more I listen to it. I'm not skipping any but I think Florida is a bit boring. It's a way better album than Midnights in every way. I love a couple of songs from Midnights but the majority are a skip for me.