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Original poster

Help! Utter confusion over piano keys

31 replies

CatherineMorland · 07/08/2021 12:23

My DD has been given a piece to play in “D minor”. It says “key signature is 1 B flat”.

However we can’t see any B notes in the entire piece and are utterly baffled as to how this works.

If any musicians can explain, we would be so so grateful. I don’t want to ask her teacher as I have a suspicion she has explained but DD wasn’t listening!

OP posts:
atlastifoundit · 07/08/2021 12:27

Each major key has an accompanying minor key.

For instance the key of C has A minor as its minor key. You could play an entire piece of music without actually playing the note of C but it would still be in A minor.

ClaudiaWankleman · 07/08/2021 12:28

It’s theoretically possible that there are no b notes in the piece - the ‘feel’ of D minor comes as much from the other notes as it does from the b flat. The way the scale moves from a to b flat to c to d is one I can hear in my head and you could jump the b flat and still imply the scale.

Are you sure there are no b flats though? Not even in the left hand?

TheBitchOfTheVicar · 07/08/2021 12:29

Yes, if there is a B it will be a flat one, but that doesn't mean there will be any B notes in the piece

atlastifoundit · 07/08/2021 12:30

Having said that, B flat is not the major key of D minor.

LemonViolet · 07/08/2021 12:30

Please do talk to her teacher, this is very basic understanding of music theory so if you don’t have this knowledge yourself, it will be difficult for you to explain to her I think. Key signatures are not the same thing as the physical keys on the piano. Is she learning music theory alongside piano?

StiffyByng · 07/08/2021 12:31

Don’t panic! It’s telling you additional information intended to be helpful for your daughter. You can tell a piece of music is in D minor if the sign for B flat shows at the very beginning - a sort of slanted ‘b’ on the middle line at the start. That means that if there WERE any Bs in the piece, they would be B flats.

A musician can tell you which key something is in by its ‘key signature’ - which is shown by the flats or sharps shown at the start of the piece.

Chaotica · 07/08/2021 12:34

If there were any Bs in the piece, they would be played as B-flats (the black key just below the B). As there are none in there though, your DD can stick to the white notes.

The key signature is for all pieces in D Minor, not just the one your DD happens to be playing. (The instruction should probably read: 'The key signature is 1 flat (B flat)'.)

Pigletpoglet · 07/08/2021 12:35

The key signature with one b flat is F major. So a scale would be f, g, a, b flat, c, d, e, f.
The related minor key would be D minor. This has the same notes and key signature, but in a different order! So a scale would be d, e, f (natural - D major would have a sharp - this is what makes it sound minor) g, a, b flat, c, d. Sometimes the c will be made into a c sharp using an accidental - a sharp sign rather than a sharp in the key signature.
So it doesn't matter that there are no b flats in the piece - it will start and end (probably) with notes from a d-minor chord (d, f natural, a), which is what makes it a piece in d minor.
HTH!

Motherhubbardscupboard · 07/08/2021 12:36

It means the piece is based around D minor. The notes in the last chord will be based on a D minor chord (D, F, A). If you play a D minor scale it has a B flat in it. It doesn't mean there has to be a B flat in the piece your DD is playing.

Original poster
CatherineMorland · 07/08/2021 12:40

Thank you all so much for responding! I think I get it, but you’ve convinced me I need to raise it with her teacher! xx

OP posts:
xyzandabc · 07/08/2021 12:41

Each major key has a relative minor key. In this case D minor, the relative major would be F major. Both have the same key signature which is one flat, that flat is b flat. As one is a major and one is a minor, they will sound different even though they have the same key signature due to the other notes in the scale.

Just because the key signature has a b flat in it, does not necessarily mean that there will be a b flat in the piece. But the piece will sound minor dye to the other notes. If it's d minor, you may find some c sharps.

It's confusing if you don't understand music theory but if it's just about playing the piece, I wouldn't worry about the technicalities, just play the notes and enjoy the sound.

ThePlantsitter · 07/08/2021 12:41

Honestly this will become clear to her the more she plays so actually you needn't worry about it now, just play the written notes.

If you want to know, every tune has a 'key' which tells you which notes it contains and that creates the mood of a piece of music - eg exciting adventure movie theme tune vs romantic ballad. You can play the scale in the key for a particular sound too.

All d minor means in this case is that if there were any bs in it, they would be b flat by default.

Bumpsadaisie · 07/08/2021 12:52

It is really just telling you info. That the piece is in D minor, and that the key signature for D minor is one flat note (B flat).

The key of D minor has 7 notes in it:

D, E, F, G, A, B flat and C (after that you start again at D!)

You can play a piece in D minor that doesn't necessarily use all seven on those notes. For example you could just play a piece with just (for example) the notes D, F and A - just those three.

It would still be "in the key of D minor" even though don't happen to play a B flat because the tune doesn't use a B flat.

NautaOcts · 07/08/2021 12:53

You’re overthinking it.

If there are B’s…. Play b flats. If not, don’t sweat it

chesirecat99 · 07/08/2021 12:57

The way to indicate that a note is a sharp or a flat note is to put a sharp or flat symbol in front of the note.

However, if the music is in a key that has sharp or flat notes, ie it uses a scale that has sharp or flat notes, instead of putting the sharp or flat in front of the note every time, that is shown in the key signature at the beginning of the music, between the clef and time signature. For example, D minor has one flat - B flat. Look next to the clef and you will see a flat symbol over the line for B.

If the music doesn't actually have any B notes in it, you would still need to put the key signature because it is telling you the key.

There are 2 scales/keys that have the key signature of 1 B flat - F major and D minor. You will be able to hear whether the key is minor or major but any easy way to tell just by looking at the music is to look at the last note or chord. The last note will be a D or F, if it is a chord it will be made up of the first, third and fifth note of the scale ie DFA or FAC.

chesirecat99 · 07/08/2021 13:00

I forgot to say:

The KEY is D minor. The scale of D minor is D E F G A B flat C D

The KEY SIGNATURE next to the clef tells you which of the notes in the key are always flat or sharp. So for D minor, that is B flat.

Roasteros · 07/08/2021 13:20

@Chaotica

If there were any Bs in the piece, they would be played as B-flats (the black key just below the B). As there are none in there though, your DD can stick to the white notes.

The key signature is for all pieces in D Minor, not just the one your DD happens to be playing. (The instruction should probably read: 'The key signature is 1 flat (B flat)'.)

Actually, the key of Bb has two flat notes - Bb and Eb. It's odd that there are no BBS in the piece, as that is the key note / tonic of the piece. There are some very good lessons online for keys and key signatures which will explain this. Look for key signatures for beginners.
Roasteros · 07/08/2021 13:21

Forgot to add that the related / relative major key for D minor is F major, not Bb major.

chesirecat99 · 07/08/2021 13:33

I don't think anyone has said anything about the key of B flat @Roasteros Confused I think you might have misread the OP.

The piece is in the key of D minor. The key signature (for D minor) is 1 flat (B flat).

Roasteros · 07/08/2021 13:40

@chesirecat99

I don't think anyone has said anything about the key of B flat *@Roasteros* Confused I think you might have misread the OP.

The piece is in the key of D minor. The key signature (for D minor) is 1 flat (B flat).

Oops, thanks @chesirecat99! That'll teach me to read on the fly😳
Bumpsadaisie · 07/08/2021 13:46

@ OP

Also worth pointing out that a physical piano key ie the white or black thing that you press down and the "key" the music is in (an abstract concept) are two different things.

So there are all the B flat black keys on the piano itself.

But then there is "in the key of B flat" or "in the key of D minor" which is an abstract description of the tonal structure of the music.

Bumpsadaisie · 07/08/2021 13:48

It is actually seriously complicated! I have never though before how confusing it all is.

TheReluctantPhoenix · 07/08/2021 15:37

Being in d minor will mean the played minor scale would be defgab(flat)c(sharp)d.

This is the same scale as f major (with the b flat) but the 7th raised a semi tone (from c to C sharp).

It is the raised 7th that gives it the ‘minor feel’. You will almost definitely see c sharps in there. For some reason the raised 7th is not shown in minor key signatures-I am sure someone here can explain why!

BTW, D minor is said to be the saddest key of all.

Buggerthebotox · 07/08/2021 15:43

@TheReluctantPhoenix: depends on what kind of D Minor though. The OP seems to be talking about the version of D Minor which is relative to f major, which makes sense as there's one flat. B flat.