Buying a piano

[redhairband]

I feel so out of my depth. Dd needs a piano. We have been chugging along on a digital piano but her teacher has said she really does need a piano now. I Don't really know a lot and her teacher is not much help as he can't seem to comprehend anyone on a budget.

Unfortunately due to Covid, our budget seems to be disappearing each month so I'm now wondering if to buy a refurbished one. We've been recommended Yamaha as a brand and it appears the price difference between refurbished and new is big to say the least!
Is it a no go area to buy a refurbished piano? I'm getting such conflicting advice on google it's leaving me more confused. Ideally I don't want to spend more than £5k and out of pure selfishness of liking them I'd rather a grand but I don't see this happening somehow and may have to relent and accept an upright is all that's possible on that budget.

TIA

[CoteDAzur]

"Refurbished" - Do you mean a second-hand piano? If so, I would agree that is the way to go. I have two pianos and bought them both second-hand. The price is lower than it would have been if I were to buy those brands new AND the quality is better because mine are from a period when theset brands were made in Europe and these days they are made somewhere in Asia. The sound is definitely not the same!

You should be able to find a very good second-hand piano for £5k. I am not a fan of Yamaha pianos because I think they sound a bit tinny or too "bright" unless you go up to the very expensive models.

There is another option you might like to consider: We bought it from a large specialist piano store, where we "rented" the piano for 2 years with the option of stopping there and giving it back (if DC stopped playing the piano or if we wanted to change it) or continuing to pay the monthly amount for another 3 years and owning the piano at the end of the 5 years. That's what we ended up doing and the monthly payments were very reasonable.

[Newgirls]

We bought from a specialist secondhand shop somewhere in rural herts many years ago. It was around 1.2k and has been perfectly good. Got two kids through their grades. The cost is transporting it (can be 200!) and getting it tuned once or twice a year (50). Can’t see the name on ours so no idea what make.

[Newgirls]

County music schools sometimes have them for sale on websites but you will need to take a very able pianist along with you to check it all works. Could be worth paying a g7-8 player £20 to check it for you before paying for removal and tuning.

[billybagpuss]

What sort of level is she, I’ve had grade 8s do very well having practiced on a modest digital piano and a others on a regular piano that is frankly dreadful, but you can only do what you can do.

Where are you in the country is Bristol an option, if so try mickleburgh.co.uk/mickleburgh-instrument-services/instrument-hire-rental/#acoustic-rental

They do a rent to buy scheme, I’ve had students buy ex-rentals where they’ve decided not to buy it at the end of the term and got very good deals.

For £5k you should be able to get something nice, take dd shopping, I love piano shopping, let her try a few, ask about the background of it etc. I’m also not a massive fan of Yamaha, but a lot of people like them and if dd likes the sound then it’s the right piano for her. It’s s bit like choosing a wand in Harry Potter, what you like is very personal and if you are spending that sort of money and go somewhere reputable you should be ok.

[redhairband]

Oh I have replies. Thanks.
Dd aiming for grade 5 next year. I can play. But I was out of my depth on what's right just going by what feels right. We've had the digital for so long as it's my old one that I can't really remember what a 'real' piano sounds and feels like.

All the shops call these pianos 'refurbished' assuming that's just second hand I'm fine with that but didn't know if pianos are ok to buy second hand or if I should watch out.

The shop I went to the other week, I went into before lockdown and it was really nice and chilled out. I went the other week and they were really pushy trying to get me to put a deposit down on a piano the minute I said I liked one so I'm also concerned even 'reputable' shops are pushing for sales now that they may have hit hard times. Understandable, but it's making things more difficult.

Interesting some are against yamahas. Are there any better brands to try?

[CrotchetyQuaver]

You don't need to buy a grand piano! (Unless you want to).
A good upright will be fine.
No you don't need to buy new. A good used one will be fine. Refurbished from a dealer will also be fine I expect. I'd tell them you want something good enough to take her up to and beyond grade 8 if you can.
Will your piano teacher help you at all? Like by coming and trying out a couple of pianos in budget for you? You might have to pay him for his time though.

[billybagpuss]

It’s definitely worth second hand, just not antique or your tuner won’t like you very much. If you feel pressured at a dealer, walk away, piano shopping is like wedding dress shopping, in theory you only buy one and you want it to be right for you and your budget.

Don’t be put off Yamaha by some of us not liking them, jazz pianists tend to love them as they’re brighter, our local Abrsm hires one every term for the exams. It’s just personal taste I prefer the more mellow sound you get from the German makes. I have a bechstein which I’ve had from new and I adore it, but they’re not cheap, I almost bought a zimmermann which was second hand they were a more budget version made by Bechstein.

Ultimately you want something that dd likes, if you look for a refurbished one around 10/20 years old you should get something quite nice for around the £2k mark.

I had a quick look on eBay, which I wouldn’t recommend buying from but this is one I’d maybe go and look at if it’s close.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Upright-Piano-Yamaha-Includes-1-Year-Warranty-Free-Tuning-Free-Delivery/264859368792?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3daad93d58:g:DXgAAOSw3xJfWKnf&enc=AQAFAAACYBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkXKoKcbeZcOrOku%2BoOBl%2BSyL1wgL5rw3FBVJKVd6ryqKahNJdH%2BfcfSn%2B4KzvWbIpC2STAMP7C4med79zOZ%2Bj3oLG9VFNeYBm%2B58trh9cR4l7lzip3iS43hZ7kt665znw4kHUalRVZwLJ7yiAf3IzpU%2BmdErjJQBgChtYm6eLZc2eeIbCtyPnnK5qRoivpDNAmxujZCMLUuv3VHm5q%2Bx3d4g3m9dX76z9ByJ2%2BO7f1uWXAVOFu54%2FaLY8V3Fwuw5Z6JCpvBtsNYIUig6xpvMeRF5G2DcOAf%2FhpSe7cJRY1qjIPCRvOwOHNArfGTB%2BGLa0IXO9JjDCfWCEU1nBIOw%2Fz6WazZLQ7YCCo%2FPiDukBhsjHQFY7QqNA7id5RA9pJHjpMI1JW06f2uVSk20dIeoY6j45WsLsfKL4shW9Q7O49OToMP%2FuFE0isvwJHLF3jSzgYVU4aYs%2Bn9DAkhFSDnr0GMqE94qkr%2F5WlQYfC%2FVrYCMgMTR36Dt2lVYVEbkzQ57%2B7q7VWdyd50k2BrKp%2FPV8Msjmu2ZIyGYT2Xzpidfz5yINfXrh7eYKRjpkRJusnCBeWhfpok3S7muvxy9yMt1OquRIrzyq6450n2b7PH%2FcLA%2BS2nxgHpgzqCUrQ7XumHdD3hiD8PXtS4z7mNxV0W6kvNeYVK960B%2B1mGW%2BSp57xaMNnOQEULHecLLAzTRuxNL%2B43UlyKZhlyTWs8sEznMG8aqclVaS%2Feh1RoNOrqAsGp7FPWgXjex0G63iX8likvQq&checksum=264859368792f6948859a58447bd86d54bb992e5fb38

[billybagpuss]

Ps my favourite Bruce Forsyth quote whilst playing a piano ‘Messrs Steinway and Son would like you all to know that this piano is a Yamaha’ 😂

[pickingdaisies]

I'm not sure why can't continue with a good digital piano, you can get great ones for the £2k to£3k mark. Why is the teacher so against them? Assuming we are talking proper digital with an action built to replicate an accoustic, like a Yamaha clavinova. Anyone out there explain, genuine question? Thanks.

[billybagpuss]

@pickingdaisies

I'm not sure why can't continue with a good digital piano, you can get great ones for the £2k to£3k mark. Why is the teacher so against them? Assuming we are talking proper digital with an action built to replicate an accoustic, like a Yamaha clavinova. Anyone out there explain, genuine question? Thanks.

This is an interview with the awesome Fanny Waterman

www.theguardian.com/music/2014/dec/21/uk-pianists-lagging-behind-renowned-music-teacher

The thing is, digital pianos have improved tremendously since then but the majority of mid price ones still have the same issues, many old school music teachers are against them and will actually refuse students who have them. But as I said upthread I’ve had grade 8s do very well practising with them.

It is much much nicer playing a good piano than a digital unless you have a very generous budget, but if you have a crappy old banger of a piano you’re better off with an ok digital.

[CoteDAzur]

"I'm not sure why can't continue with a good digital piano, you can get great ones for the £2k to£3k mark. Why is the teacher so against them? Assuming we are talking proper digital with an action built to replicate an accoustic, like a Yamaha clavinova. Anyone out there explain, genuine question?"

Because no electronic imitation of an instrument can replicate the feel or even the sound of an acoustic instrument.

(1) The feel of the keys is completely different. The action in electronic pianos is given with springs that push fingers back. That is not at all how an acoustic piano feels.

(2) The sound of a string, whether it's plucked (guitar, mandolin, harpsichord...) or struck (piano, clavichord...), produces not only that note but its harmonic overtones as the vibration of the string changes over time.

[CoteDAzur]

"if pianos are ok to buy second hand or if I should watch out."

Pianos make great second-hand investments. They don't lose their value like cars - a well-maintained 30-year-old piano can sell for higher than a brand new one.
if pianos are ok to buy second hand or if I should watch out.

"Interesting some are against yamahas. Are there any better brands to try?"

I have an old Seiler (from back when it was a stellar brand) and a European-manufactured Hoffmann (a Steinway brand). They are both excellent, if quite different. The Seiler has a lighter touch and so better to play my Baroque repertoire (Handel, Rameau etc) with its many ornaments. The Hoffmann has deeper keys and a rich sound. Neither has a bright/brash sound like Yamahas. I would recommend both very highly.

However, in the end it's down to personal preference. You will have to try a piano, get a feel for it, and see if you love its sound or not.

[redhairband]

I have a top end digital piano but I can really tell the difference. I'm not saying you can't pass your exams on them but to actually play the piano and enjoy the piano properly I think an acoustic piano is needed, I suppose just as you'd find in most things mechanical vs digital there are big differences.

Our teacher is helping but he is vulnerable and teaching remotely now, not really leaving the house so he can't come with us. He is saying we should purchase a U3 to take us through the rest of dd piano journey.
I know I don't need a grand. I just want one I think we'll end up with an upright once I'm out my piano dreamworld though.

[TheBossOfMe]

Speak to these guys about a secondhand piano:

www.sherwoodphoenix.co.uk

They are very reputable and won't sell you anything rubbish if you explain what level your daughter is playing at and aiming for.

[scunner]

You can buy a lovely reconditioned Yamaha and other makes for less then £5000.
Even though digital pianos have developed so much over the years, the weight of the keys, the sound, pedals are different.
If you are able to go to a reputable shop in a town/city and explain your needs. You will find them most helpful. Please avoid, an old donated piano from well meaning folks.

[pickingdaisies]

@billybagpuss
@CoteDAzur
Thanks both!