Profound musical epiphany this weekend - has this happened to anyone else?

[Tintini]

I've had a weird but wonderful weekend with my piano. It’s amazing but it’s actually freaking me out a bit…and making me question my years of classical training. Has this happened to anyone else?

Here's my background: At school (about 25 years ago) I did grade 8 flute, grade 4 piano, grade 5 theory and GCSE music. I had lots of piano sheet music with easy arrangements of popular songs. If I practiced them a lot sometimes they ended up sounding ok. Not played much since school.

On Friday I stumbled across a book about piano playing in terms of harmony and chords - ie 'pop' piano style. All about chord progressions and improvisation. So many things suddenly clicked into place – things I had half-known about the 'circle of fifths' and diatonic chords and all that - but I realize now I had never really understood how that actually related to making music.

So, urged on by this book, I went over to the piano and had a go at playing a tune, ignoring the written arrangement. I just played the melody in the right hand and then instead of playing the left hand I just played chords printed above (like a guitar song book)...and then improvised around those chords with the left hand.

And gosh, it sounded...amazing!

I'd always assumed improvisation was hard and it just never occurred to me to do it. Don't get me wrong, I am no-where near expert, but what I mean is that it sounded SO much better than stumbling through an arrangement and it was much easier. It sounds like someone playing a piece, naturally, rather than practising and getting sections wrong all the time.

So it’s been wonderful but I’m feeling very very foolish that I’ve never tried this before - it simply never occurred to me. It seems so obvious now. But also – how could I have been taught so much music and failed to grasp these fundamental concepts of harmony, chord progressions and keys?

Has this happened to anyone else, or am I the only dumb one?

Yes jaffa I use the Axis of Awesome song with my students (clean version!!)

Spot-on Tintini, you're so right. I've never felt like a 'proper' piano player, because a lot of music theory is beyond me, and I have never managed to develop the dexterity to play complex pieces. But I think I DO have some sort of innate musicality (sounds terribly wanky but not sure of another way to describe it). My Dad and brother were/are 'musical'. Both great singers, excellent pitch (is that the right word? Hardly ever hit bum notes, basically!) We're also good at whistling and have good rhythm- we're all good at drumming on a table top.

This thread has been truly fascinating, thank you for starting it.

We are both proper piano players waterlego! But...a piano player needs a piano - I think you should get one.

Going to check out Axis of Awesome - thanks jaffa.

Just watched that axis of awesome for the first time - brilliant!

Do ask around friends and family and see if anyone has an unused piano or keyboard lying around gathering dust. You might get lucky.

Now keep playing Tintini. So nice to feel the happiness in your posts

Good call Tintini! Going to discuss it with the OH...

I think the traditional way of teaching music in this country has a lot to answer for, as a PP alluded to. ABRSM theory feels completely unapplied, and certainly my lessons in the dim and dark distant past had a very tenuous link to theory (doing my teacher down, though , she was generally fab).

Ah! The the Axis of Awesome song is great. I see that most of the comments on YouTube are about how this is "exposing" pop as simple-minded and unadventurous. I get this, but in my jubilant mood I can't help thinking about this as so positive - it shows that there's no alchemy there. Anyone can do it. And then....you can push it further if you want to.

What reaction do you get from your students jaffa? Do they tend to feel they've been 'duped' or does it make them feel that they could do it too?

What I'm enjoying at the moment is simple, simple chord progressions...really feeling them and 'getting' why they move me. The subdominant, the dominant, back to the tonic! The diminished 7th in 'Amazing Grace'!

And what about 'Hallelujah' by Leonard Cohen?! He's telling us the chord progression in the lyrics!!

You are learning to play keyboard as opposed to learning to play classical piano. The 'easy to play' books are leading towards Grade 8 piano. You wouldn't get there learning to play keyboard style. But as you are discovering you are learning a whole load of other things and certainly with popular music it will sound a lot better too!

Indeed! And this style is what I want to do right now. But my real insight is that ALL of western music is based on chord progressions - classical too! I just hadn't got that. Now I think about it, I knew a bit about guitar chords and all that...but I had filed that under 'guitar' in my brain. But the chords underpin everything.

I've just had this with painting. Have spent my whole life thinking my painting was pedestrian, and I'm not really an 'artist', and suddenly something has freed up and I can see how paint 'works' and I'm churning out many paintings that I like and really enjoying painting them instead of struggling. Also this happens with writing (I'm a writer). It's this - once you really have the structure of how a thing works in your brain or soul or whatever - it frees you up to find the spontaneity. What a wonderful thing, keep going!

It's also a well-documented psychological phenomenon; have a look at this. All about flow - being so connected to what you're doing all the doubts and fears disappear and you are completely in the experience - i.e. as you say, epiphany. How lovely, OP! www.amazon.co.uk/Flow-Psychology-Happiness-Mihaly-Csikszentmihalyi-ebook/dp/B00GO8HZIW/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=flow&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1537882634&sr=8-1

That's wonderful onalong! I guess it can happen in any area. I've heard a bit about flow and have experienced it before, but never in such a striking way. The book sounds really interesting.

Exactly - I feel free, and especially from the constraints of how 'good' I am. I'm not actually playing piano that 'well', but that is pretty irrelevant. I simply feel like I am a piano player now. In contrast, learning the flute was always very tied up in how good I was at it.

ALL of western music is based on chord progressions - classical too!

Yes, mostly. With greater or lesser complexity of 'figuration' depending on the era etc. And almost all considerably more complex harmonically than the vast majority of pop music.

Isn't it fabulous! It's only just happened for me with the painting, just a few days ago, I suddenly felt OMG I can paint! I felt connected to the brush and the paint and loved what was happening instead of having to 'try' and feeling like I was 'failing' to get what I 'wanted' - it was all a different process, a joy! And I wasn't expecting it either, I only paint as a distraction from the writing when THAT isn't working or I'm putting too much pressure on it. Now I feel like I can do both and I'm in heaven a lot of the time!

Thanks for starting this thread, it's lovely.

Oooh - so what isn't based on chord progressions? Is it atonal music or...? I really want to find out as much as possible now. (I've even started reading a book about the physics of music - "How Music Works" by John Powell - and physics is definitely not my thing.)

Yes atonal music. And early mediaeval music which is based on modes.

I really love some of that sacred choral music. The Lamb, by John Taverner for example, gives me goosebumps. I can hear that some of the harmonies in that are ‘jarring’, almost uncomfortable/terrifying to hear (second intervals maybe? Is that a thing?) and then comes a resolution which has an almost physical effect on me. If anyone can enlighten me as to the correct terms for the thing I’m talking about, that would be grand!

There’s another glorious choral piece called ‘Just’ by David Lang, which has lots of those satisfying ‘resolution’ type moments. Beautiful. I highly recommend a listen to those who enjoy harmonies!

Thanks waterlego I've just listened to those - terrifying is exactly the right word - all crushed together. And the resolutions have a visceral impact.

ferrier, earlier I didn't understand fully your comment about learning keyboard (misunderstanding things seems to happen to me a lot - see my original post) - but now I think I do. So in the music world, if you want to learn in a popular style with everything very obviously rooted around the chords and improvising you should not be seeking a piano teacher, but rather a keyboard teacher. And should you want to do exams, they should be keyboard exams. So I am playing what is known as 'keyboard' even if I happen to be playing on a piano. The penny drops (I think!)

That's how I've always played, never had the patience to read music (although I managed Grade 3 piano). It's great when you realise a pop song you've always wanted to play is only four chords

@Tintini Yes!

Another epiphany- this discussion helps me to understand why I like bands like Radiohead (I say ‘like’ but can’t think of many others like them) who use unstable chord progressions so there’s sometimes an imperfect, unfinished quality to the sound, punctuated with ‘cleaner’ harmonies, giving moments of clarity and resolution.

Ooooh, this is so interesting!

Yes yes yes waterlego! Thank you so much and to everyone – this thread is helping me process things.

OK – so this post is long and self-indulgent but I hope it may help other people. I already feel all this is going to influence how I approach music with my son. I’ve gained some real insight overnight. Please bear with me…

I put ‘profound’ in the title of this thread because that is how what is happening to me feels. I’m having trouble sleeping and working because I’m so preoccupied with this; I’m hearing music in my head all the time – full, thick, harmonious music; I’m very emotional; I am devouring music theory books; I am reading books about the physics of music; I am playing piano for hours; I’m talking to my husband about this all the time; I’m singing constantly; I’ve stopped playing songs on the piano – I’m focusing on chords – just doing I, IV, V, I chord progressions through every key on the piano.

I’ve re-read my posts and they are gushing and OTT – my rational brain is saying that I’m being silly. Basically I’ve worked out that I can bang out a few tunes myself with chords to accompany them – what’s the big deal? OK, it’s meant I can play in a more natural way and it’s a shame I didn’t realize this earlier, but why am I responding in such an emotional way? It’s not a big deal really.

I think I’m responding like this because the aspect of music that I respond to – in a big, emotional and physical way – is harmony. Harmony is absolutely the most important thing to me in music. Music is not just harmony – there’s melody, rhythm, timbre, texture…loads more. For other people one of these other aspects might be the key thing they respond to. Or perhaps all these things have an even impact for you. It sounds like waterlego and I have a similar response to harmony, or certain harmonies and resolutions. For my husband the timbre is more at the forefront – he likes vocal music but only certain timbres of voice give him an emotional reaction.

I’ve often been a bit confused about my musical listening tastes – they span genres but are at the same time very particular. They are: 50s music like the Mills Brothers and the Crew Cuts, certain bluegrass, any Mozart, a lot of Beethoven especially the Adagio cantabile movement from Sonata in C minor, barbershop, the Beach Boys, early ensemble recorder music, Simon and Garfunkel, Queen, certain Nick Cave songs like ‘breathless’, folk music with close vocal harmony, Pachelbel’s Canon, Brahms Variation on a Theme by Paganini (South Bank show music).

I think what all these artists / styles have in common is an emphasis on / very strong harmony (although perhaps in the case of Mozart and Beethoven the music is strong on EVERY aspect because they were such astounding composers – and I’m just mostly responding to the harmony aspect. Maybe..?).

OK, so what happened when I worked out I could improvise around chords on the piano on Friday? I suddenly was able to make harmony easily, effortlessly, myself! And I have never been able to do this before! And I could sing on top of it – so an extra layer of harmony!

Look at my musical history – I played flute to grade 8. A MELODIC instrument! I disliked playing in orchestras – I think now because in an orchestra the flute is often given melodic solos. (Violin would have been better.) The style of flute music I liked best was flute groups – lots of harmony playing. And I liked playing fast fast Mozart pieces – loads of arpeggios – was I trying desperately to get the closest I could to harmony with a single instrument?

But wait, I did learn piano – that’s an instrument that can make harmony itself. BUT! I was severely hampered in this because I only knew about playing from written music and I didn’t have the technical ability to make the harmonies easily – such a struggle reading the left hand. I wonder in fact if I might be unusually poor at reading the base clef – perhaps because of all the flute training in treble? After years of playing I still always ‘translate’ the base clef into treble in my head to work out the notes – I can’t read it automatically.

A harmonic instrument from the start would have been better for me – probably guitar would be ideal, or piano in the style I’ve now discovered.

So, when you are choosing which instrument to take up (or helping your child choose) – I wonder if it's really important to consider what aspect of music you or they really respond to.

I would LOVE to hear anyone’s thoughts on all this.

Wow, those are some really interesting thoughts Tintini. As you say, I respond strongly to harmony- it is the ‘thing’ about music that I most like to hear, and that I most like to create. I also have a somewhat visceral response to really good, really right drumming. There are certain drum solos that make me feel a bit high...euphoric. But I suppose it makes a lot of sense- drum beats/heartbeats...I associate drumming with dancing maybe (which I love).

Your thoughts on different instruments and how they might impact how we feel about/approach music are so interesting. Would love to know if there are academic papers on this (though suspect I might struggle to understand them!)

I have just bought a book called 'Why we love music' by John Powell which summarizes psychology research on this. He says what I guess we all know - the music you like is strongly influenced by what you liked in your teens. You create a 'prototype' of the kind of music you like then and compare all later music to that. As we get older we often become more sophisticated in our taste along that same theme.

So waterlego, you mentioned your family drumming on table tops - could that be your prototype for your love now of complex drumming? (Nobody ever drummed on a tabletop in my house!) Could the love of harmony be from your dad and brother playing guitar? Or what other influences did you have?

I think my prototype influence was the first tape I ever owned - Beach Boys.

I probably killed this thread with my last post but if there's anyone else left, do you see a direct influence to the instrument you now love playing?

This is really interesting. I have been thinking for ages that I really must learn to link up my sense of harmony with the chord names I learnt in music theory. I also respond very strongly to harmonies.

I'm a singer and and particularly love singing in harmony with other singers, especially those glorious pieces where the harmony and the emotion come together beautifully. There is something amazing about singing something like the trio from the end of Rosenkavalier - weaving a vocal line around the lines that others are singing and together creating some miraculous alchemy that is so much more than any one voice.

Una, that description gave me goosebumps! It IS like alchemy. Singing in harmony with others is one of the greatest pleasures in life. I don’t get to do it much as my OH is not tuneful. He can just about (somewhat shakily) stick to a simple melody, but if I join in and start harmonising, he loses it completely 😆

My children have also been thrown by my harmonising in the past, but as my DD has got older, I think she just about gets it now, though I don’t think I’ve heard her singing harmonies yet. But she has a great voice and a really good ear so I’m looking forward to harmonising with her in future!

Tintini, I love the way you are thinking so deeply about this. Yes to the drumming! It makes sense. I’m also fond of blues, folk and country music, all of which I associate with my dad, so yes there are definitely some powerful links to childhood.

The Beach Boys! I love them. The harmonies are great. Ditto the Carpenters. I bet you’ve enjoyed harmonising to ‘California Dreamin’ a few times too? Those are very satisfying ones to sing. ‘And the sky is grey....’ LOVE it.