One-question survey on a possible Mumsnet campaign: your views wanted NOW CLOSED

[AnnMumsnet]

Hello

MNHQ is seeking Mumsnetters' views on a possible campaign. It's a one-question survey, although there is some background for you to read if you're not familiar with the issue being discussed.

The survey is open to all Mumsnet users.

Here's the link: www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/TQSCSBW

thanks
MNHQ

Instead of stretching the underfunded NHS resources yet further, how about a campaign to challenge the ridiculous law in the first place?

Change the law in NI don't pander to it. I'm Catholic and pro-choice. My choice in such circumstances might be different to another woman's but I have no right to dictate to her what choice to make.

Well who knew it was Harriet Harman who probably did a deal with the NI politicos? Time to get out the pink van and right a wrong?

Changing the law in Northern Ireland would make life far easier for women needing abortions in the South as well.

Nope, we should focus on challenging and changing the law. Even if the termination is free, women still need to pay for travel, take longer off work, what about access to counselling etc? Don't put a sticking plaster on this, let's help our sisters in NI get equal rights.

I totally agree the law needs changed but I also think that in the interim helping women to travel for terminations would be beneficial.

Hello

Thanks and we hear you. The only people who can actively change the law in this case are representatives at Stormont, and from soundings we've taken, the chances in that department are not great; the option presented in the survey is a possible way around that difficulty.

As with all Mumsnet campaigns though, we'd only do it if we had pretty full-throated support from MNers, so any and all views are welcome - in the end it all comes down to what you think about a) whether we should get involved at all and b) if so, how.

Thanks
MNHQ

NI is part of the UK but NI women are disenfranchised from choice by law. It's not equality and it's not acceptable. Just because it looks likely to fail to change the law in the next year or so is not a reason not to properly campaign. I agree with others above - all or nothing.

Done.

Just want to stick this link here for if anyone wants to do something to help right now...
www.asn.org.uk/donate/

I agree with other posts. I don't think MN should use it's campaigning efforts on what is essentially a sticking plaster when a change in law is what is required. I think the NHS should cover the cost of the termination but I'm just not convinced it's the campaign MN should be backing.

I have responded and hope Mumsnet get to read the comments I have made on the survey as I do not wish to put them here.

I feel that first and foremost the law in N Ireland should change.

For use of health service, that depends on the general arrangement between the N Ireland Health and Care service and the NHS. I see that the Irish service is free to all UK citizens , so presume the NHS is free to N Irish citizens? Quite wrong if this is decided on a procedure - by - procedure basis.

No, women travelling from NI to access abortion have to pay for the procedure as well as accommodation and travel costs. They often end up having to travel home again very quickly afterwards to save money or get back to responsibilities at home, so they are still experiencing the physical effects of the abortion whilst travelling.

Whilst obviously a change in the law is vital, women in NI need help RIGHT NOW and the quickest thing would be to alleviate the cost of procedure that they have to travel for. I think both things can be campaigned for at the same time. Women who need help right now should not be sacrificed.

But can NI citizens use the NHS free of charge for other services ? Or do NI citizens always have to pay for NHS?

NI citizens have full use of the NHS for free.

Because we are part of the UK.

Until it comes to women requiring terminations.

Then it's tough shit.

I agree that the law needs changing - that's a no brainer - but I also agree with a pp it shouldn't be at the sacrifice of those who need help now. Law is not going to change here for a long time, and even then it will be restricted to very strict unobtainable criteria.

Just because it looks likely to fail to change the law in the next year or so is not a reason not to properly campaign.

This, definitely.

Not making NI women pay is a start. But I would also want to see MN be among those speaking up to say that the law should be changed. Silence is complicity in this case.

That's outrageous! If NI citizens are entitled to use the NHS for free, just as other UK citizens are entitled to use the HSC in NI, then ALL the services should be included. Dreadful restriction on certain citizens of the UK - how can this be legal?!

I do think that is an anomaly that wants re-dressing now, and alongside the pressure for the law in NI to change.

I think (although NI MNers may be able to tell me if I'm wrong) the situation is that NI healthcare professionals will refer NI people on to British mainland health services if the procedure/treatment they need is not easily available in NI - except in the case of terminations.

So, if you needed complex spinal surgery, your doctor in NI might happily refer you on to a hospital in the British mainland that specialises in that procedure.

But GPs and hospitals in NI cannot refer women on to NHS abortion providers in England, Wales or Scotland, although they can indicate that abortion treatment is available there. (Some detailed guidance for NI healthcare practitioners here).

And it's very difficult to just turn up in (say) Liverpool and self-refer to an NHS abortion provider. So women tend to end up paying instead - despite being UK citizens and (in theory) having exactly the same rights to NHS treatments as everyone else. (We checked this out with the HMRC and they confirmed that 'Anyone who is deemed to be ordinarily resident in the UK is entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England.’ )

This entire area is the subject of a case currently before the Supreme Court. The judgement is expected soon but is expected to be a 'no' to funding the treatment of women from NI (although we could all be pleasantly surprised, of course.)

That's my understanding anyway, do please correct me if I'm wrong!

I'm happy doing all three, donating to ASN (travel and accom will still need covering even if nhs do start doing it), campaigning for NHS to do the procedure, while doing the longer job of campaigning for law change.

Thank you for that explanation, Rowan.

I agree that there should be a campaign for women in NI to have access to abortion in line with the rest of the UK, but knowing how hard it will be to get that change in the law, making it easier for women who have an immediate need for these services would be a good thing in the short term for women in NI to have access to abortions on the NHS.

Would be a good thing, not sure where that erroneous not came from.

How about NHS services on the mainland making it easier for women from NI to access abortions which they are perfectly entitled to, without needing a referral from their GP? They can arrange a private abortion without a referral so I don't see why it should be necessary for an NHS one.

Yes, could Brook or similiar not make referrals ? Or well wan clinics ?